Scandy (GB1) said:

It is silly to assume that anyone will max those items but i also think it is totally fair that GGE sets a course by which every single and alliance still has ways to improve their accounts. That was a serious issue a while back that some people felt there was no way forward. 

Maybe some people think they'd be able to "finish" their accounts but that certainly isn't in GGE's interest. 

The problem isn't that we can't max those items, it is that it is TOO hard to even get onto the ladder. If you don't get top 1000 you get nothing and even if you get top 400 it still takes 3-4 event before you can build ONE of the level 1 items. If you get top 50 you get ONE lvl 1 item at best and the investment going into getting top 50 must be thousands of pounds across the alliance. Neither this nor the other version of BTH is a good investment of time and money compared to spending time and money in the normal game

LegendaryKing73 (GB1) said:

For your last comment, I have spent a lot of time developing my account, but not spent one single ruby on it and never will. 

Wasso (INT3) said:

LegendaryKing73 (GB1) said:

For your last comment, I have spent a lot of time developing my account, but not spent one single ruby on it and never will. 

Preach it loud and proud!

Since we haven't seen a response from a Mod yet, here is my prediction of the response:  

We have always planned to make these items more readily available within the main game from day one.  Please be patient and you will see these show up in the near future!

Will this be a true statement?  Perhaps.  But, the "near future" is likely to be when the money spent in BtH either reaches a certain milestone or drops to a certain level.  Never forget, THAT is how GGS/Stillfront Group makes decisions...…...

LegendaryKing73 (GB1) said:

I think this is the right thread to talk about issues link with BTH. Having done some calculations (hoping there is someone who can put it right just in case my maths aren't great) there really is no hope for any player to get very far in the game compared to those who literally spend thousands. 

60% Flank build Item:



Let us just look at how many fabric are needed just to get it to level 30; a grand total of 4,650. That really is too much!!

60% Front Build Item:



Again, it really is too much considering the extra front you need. So, let us go onto the courtyatd:



Lo and behold, yet another build item that requires a total of 4,650 Fabric. But here is the crux of the matter. This is how much we need in total just for those 3 relic build items that will give 60% Flanks, 60% Front and 60% Courtyard. I have not even counted the 20% melee and the 20% range that can be maxed out at level 20.



So, we have arrived at the grand total needed to get 60% for flanks, front and courtyard; a total of 13,950 fabric is needed. But hang on, there is more:

Rankings from 1st place to 1,000th place:



There seems to be a bit of a problem somewhere. That's right, the first place alliance will get (and I am only dealing with the alliance side of things, not the individual) only 190 Fabric after all that 6 days of effort and going without sleep just to defend a capital that will no longer be there after a set period. Now, let us break this down even further:

BTH Participations (As an alliance)



There is obviously a serious problem if an alliance wants to get 60% flanks, front and CY. The winning alliance would have to win it 73 times straight to actually get those done. I pity those who have done their best, only to find that in the last 2 hours, they went from top 50 to top 500. This could mean that instead of participating in 1,268 editions of BTH, they would have to partcipate in 3,488 editions of BTH and since this is a bi-weekly event, it would take around 134 years.

Therefore, there is a problem and it should be solved for all those who take their time and participate. Players don't ask for much, but when they spend money just to be in 1,000th place, it is not funny for them, in fact it is pretty much demoralising and it could lead to the playerbase being reduced over time.

Wouldn't it be in the best interests to actually create a new map (the ice, sands, fire have been done to death) where those who are at a certain legendary level can actually hit robber barons that actually give these materials. A lot of players have given you loads over the 8 years that I have played this game, I think it is in the best interests to at least listen to those who want to progress further. We don't ask for much, just a little fair play. 

Wiglema said:

CM Arcanine wrote: »

Hi eggeggegg,

Sorry for the delay in a response!

The time taken to get a level 10 gem should be nowhere near what it was originally calculated to be right now. We've added in the option to get gems in various ways, and there may be more to come in the future. Of course, i'll let the team know that you are still concerned and get back to you when I get some more information on this.

Regards,

Steve.

Hi Steve, I'm very concerned.

Let's assume we aim for one level 10 gem in a year (so that in 80 years we can equip all commanders and castellans with 4 level 10 gems).

That would mean we have to collect 322 level 4 gems each day for a year and a total of at least 20 million rubies per year to ensure successful crafting.

Or 2256 level 3 gems each day for a year and a total of more than 80 million rubies per year to ensure successful crafting.

80 million rubies cost around € 20,000 if I buy them during a special offer.

You will probably say that crafting can also be done without rubies, so let's see how many gems it would then require.

Success rate for crafting level 4 gems is 60%, for level 5 gems it's 40% and for level 6 gems 20%.
I don't know the success rates for crafting level 7 and up, so I'll assume 20% to be on the safe side. Probably it's actually worse than that. I'll adjust my calculations as soon as I have reliable numbers.

Given these success rates, we need (on average) 458066416 level 4 gems for 1 level 10 gem, that's more than 1 million level 4 gems each day for a year.

Or (on average) 5038730576 level 3 gems for 1 level 10 gem, that's almost 14 million level 3 gems each day for a year.

Steve, do the team really think that these numbers of gems can be collected on a daily basis, even with all those newly added options to get gems in various ways?

Regards,

Wiglema (NL1) said:

LegendaryKing73 (GB1) said:

I think this is the right thread to talk about issues link with BTH. Having done some calculations (hoping there is someone who can put it right just in case my maths aren't great) there really is no hope for any player to get very far in the game compared to those who literally spend thousands. 

60% Flank build Item:



Let us just look at how many fabric are needed just to get it to level 30; a grand total of 4,650. That really is too much!!

60% Front Build Item:



Again, it really is too much considering the extra front you need. So, let us go onto the courtyatd:



Lo and behold, yet another build item that requires a total of 4,650 Fabric. But here is the crux of the matter. This is how much we need in total just for those 3 relic build items that will give 60% Flanks, 60% Front and 60% Courtyard. I have not even counted the 20% melee and the 20% range that can be maxed out at level 20.



So, we have arrived at the grand total needed to get 60% for flanks, front and courtyard; a total of 13,950 fabric is needed. But hang on, there is more:

Rankings from 1st place to 1,000th place:



There seems to be a bit of a problem somewhere. That's right, the first place alliance will get (and I am only dealing with the alliance side of things, not the individual) only 190 Fabric after all that 6 days of effort and going without sleep just to defend a capital that will no longer be there after a set period. Now, let us break this down even further:

BTH Participations (As an alliance)



There is obviously a serious problem if an alliance wants to get 60% flanks, front and CY. The winning alliance would have to win it 73 times straight to actually get those done. I pity those who have done their best, only to find that in the last 2 hours, they went from top 50 to top 500. This could mean that instead of participating in 1,268 editions of BTH, they would have to partcipate in 3,488 editions of BTH and since this is a bi-weekly event, it would take around 134 years.

Therefore, there is a problem and it should be solved for all those who take their time and participate. Players don't ask for much, but when they spend money just to be in 1,000th place, it is not funny for them, in fact it is pretty much demoralising and it could lead to the playerbase being reduced over time.

Wouldn't it be in the best interests to actually create a new map (the ice, sands, fire have been done to death) where those who are at a certain legendary level can actually hit robber barons that actually give these materials. A lot of players have given you loads over the 8 years that I have played this game, I think it is in the best interests to at least listen to those who want to progress further. We don't ask for much, just a little fair play. 

Hi LegendaryKing73,

Nice calculations. :-)
We've seen this before, for example when the gems were introduced. We did the calculations resulting in impossible numbers. GGE never addressed the numbers, but they did gradually add higher level gems as rewards in various events, and of course offered them to buyers for insane amounts of rubies... and of course by now those expensive gems are basically wasted because they don't fit on relic equipment.
I guess the same will happen to the new items. Expect them to be offered for insane amounts of rubies "in the future".
Just for reference, a few numbers from those days:

Wiglema said:

CM Arcanine wrote: »

Hi eggeggegg,

Sorry for the delay in a response!

The time taken to get a level 10 gem should be nowhere near what it was originally calculated to be right now. We've added in the option to get gems in various ways, and there may be more to come in the future. Of course, i'll let the team know that you are still concerned and get back to you when I get some more information on this.

Regards,

Steve.

Hi Steve, I'm very concerned.

Let's assume we aim for one level 10 gem in a year (so that in 80 years we can equip all commanders and castellans with 4 level 10 gems).

That would mean we have to collect 322 level 4 gems each day for a year and a total of at least 20 million rubies per year to ensure successful crafting.

Or 2256 level 3 gems each day for a year and a total of more than 80 million rubies per year to ensure successful crafting.

80 million rubies cost around € 20,000 if I buy them during a special offer.

You will probably say that crafting can also be done without rubies, so let's see how many gems it would then require.

Success rate for crafting level 4 gems is 60%, for level 5 gems it's 40% and for level 6 gems 20%.
I don't know the success rates for crafting level 7 and up, so I'll assume 20% to be on the safe side. Probably it's actually worse than that. I'll adjust my calculations as soon as I have reliable numbers.

Given these success rates, we need (on average) 458066416 level 4 gems for 1 level 10 gem, that's more than 1 million level 4 gems each day for a year.

Or (on average) 5038730576 level 3 gems for 1 level 10 gem, that's almost 14 million level 3 gems each day for a year.

Steve, do the team really think that these numbers of gems can be collected on a daily basis, even with all those newly added options to get gems in various ways?

Regards,

(Taken from https://community.goodgamestudios.com/empire/en/discussion/109352/discussion-thread-improve-your-equipment-with-gems)

History repeats itself.

LegendaryKing73 (GB1) said:

Scandy (GB1) said:

It is silly to assume that anyone will max those items but i also think it is totally fair that GGE sets a course by which every single and alliance still has ways to improve their accounts. That was a serious issue a while back that some people felt there was no way forward. 

Maybe some people think they'd be able to "finish" their accounts but that certainly isn't in GGE's interest. 

The problem isn't that we can't max those items, it is that it is TOO hard to even get onto the ladder. If you don't get top 1000 you get nothing and even if you get top 400 it still takes 3-4 event before you can build ONE of the level 1 items. If you get top 50 you get ONE lvl 1 item at best and the investment going into getting top 50 must be thousands of pounds across the alliance. Neither this nor the other version of BTH is a good investment of time and money compared to spending time and money in the normal game

You are totally forgetting the gist of my post. I know full well that RAWSIDE have been doing really well, but even they are no longer interested in the feeble rewards that comes with being 1st place every single time. This game has, since 2012 been a ruin to a lot of people. Players thinking that they can finish the game in its entirety yet GGE continues to dangle that particular carrot by promising a lot but giving very little in return for the money invested. 

Anyway, it is not "silly", as you put it to point out the exhorbitant costs or how long it will take to eventually do it. Therefore, I was simply trying to wake the moderators up so that they can speak to the developpers who might (I hope) jut get rid of that mess called Beyond the Horizon. Where is the sense of fair-play where players have parted with real cash, only to get a couple of fabrics? There really is no sense at all.

Therefore, the only solution out there (to stop players who are LL800 from leaving in droves) is to get rid of that monstrosity that we call Storm, because that event has had its day, its equipment is shabby,and the rewards are simply no good. They should replace it with a new map, where we can actually hit towers where they will give timber, nails, glue, cobblestones, fabric etc. That way it gives players a goal to aim for, keep those players interested. I'll say it now and I'll say it clear that the supposed millions that play this game, only 27k are in BTH. If GGE want to keep their players, they have to propose something new and not an event that happens bi-weekly.

For your last comment, I have spent a lot of time developing my account, but not spent one single ruby on it and never will. 

Scandy (GB1) said:

LegendaryKing73 (GB1) said:

Scandy (GB1) said:

It is silly to assume that anyone will max those items but i also think it is totally fair that GGE sets a course by which every single and alliance still has ways to improve their accounts. That was a serious issue a while back that some people felt there was no way forward. 

Maybe some people think they'd be able to "finish" their accounts but that certainly isn't in GGE's interest. 

The problem isn't that we can't max those items, it is that it is TOO hard to even get onto the ladder. If you don't get top 1000 you get nothing and even if you get top 400 it still takes 3-4 event before you can build ONE of the level 1 items. If you get top 50 you get ONE lvl 1 item at best and the investment going into getting top 50 must be thousands of pounds across the alliance. Neither this nor the other version of BTH is a good investment of time and money compared to spending time and money in the normal game

You are totally forgetting the gist of my post. I know full well that RAWSIDE have been doing really well, but even they are no longer interested in the feeble rewards that comes with being 1st place every single time. This game has, since 2012 been a ruin to a lot of people. Players thinking that they can finish the game in its entirety yet GGE continues to dangle that particular carrot by promising a lot but giving very little in return for the money invested. 

Anyway, it is not "silly", as you put it to point out the exhorbitant costs or how long it will take to eventually do it. Therefore, I was simply trying to wake the moderators up so that they can speak to the developpers who might (I hope) jut get rid of that mess called Beyond the Horizon. Where is the sense of fair-play where players have parted with real cash, only to get a couple of fabrics? There really is no sense at all.

Therefore, the only solution out there (to stop players who are LL800 from leaving in droves) is to get rid of that monstrosity that we call Storm, because that event has had its day, its equipment is shabby,and the rewards are simply no good. They should replace it with a new map, where we can actually hit towers where they will give timber, nails, glue, cobblestones, fabric etc. That way it gives players a goal to aim for, keep those players interested. I'll say it now and I'll say it clear that the supposed millions that play this game, only 27k are in BTH. If GGE want to keep their players, they have to propose something new and not an event that happens bi-weekly.

For your last comment, I have spent a lot of time developing my account, but not spent one single ruby on it and never will. 

FYI, on the main account i have not spent any money since i was level 24 back in 2015, and I am now a LL800 with 3.2m MP.

From time to time I spend 5 pounds on a round of outers as it is hard to do anything useful in most versions without rubies. I really view Outers as a separate game.

I hope you understand that 1) GGE is a business and needs to make money 2) to make money someone actually has to spend money 3) people like you and me are NOT customers of GGE, we are a feature of the game that they use to make the game more interesting to their actual customers - those who buy rubies. GGE's only interest in us is to keep enough of us interested so that their actual customers have someone to compete with.

If you never spend any money you shouldn't be upset if GGE doesn't make answering your demands a priority.

Wasso (INT3) said:

I apologize for the back to back post, but I wanted to get these screen shots together.

I have heard other Players saying that some alliances had 2 Capitals, but I never believed them.  I would see Alliances who NAMED their Castles "Capital" and I foolishly thought that was all it was.  How wrong I was.  

Below is PROOF that an Alliance had 2 Capitals.  I do not know if it helped them or hurt them.  But, it clearly should NOT have happened.  



NO QUESTION about it.  Jimky has 2 Capitals.  They are listed right after his Main and before his City State.  Further proof, I hovered over them and it clearly states that they BOTH "Store the alliance influence of your alliance".  They have different coordinates on the map.  They are different distances from my main and you can see that as well.  Finally, I hit them both and received influence from them both.

@Crom Cruach and/or @Poseidon X Angel and/or even the welcomed visitor @Zoe, can one of you explain how this happens?  If you don't know, it is ok to say so. 

But, please DO forward this on to the QA Dept.  I know they are busy, but this one is either a bug, flaw, or feature that will either Help or Hinder those who stumble into it.....

Zenzer (GB1) said:

Crom Cruach said:

reblousou (GB1) said:

although it is likely that with a little planning that will just mean the larger alliances work their four event alliances as a team to strip the smaller ones

They will still have to compete with themselves as rewards are provided only to the best small alliances.

player312421129 (US1) said:

It would be nice to know how long the event is and the rewards!

More on that very shortly, have no fear!

kookiekooks (US1) said:

 3 -20 man event alliances and the remaining 5 players can not participate.  

The final five will form a small alliance of only five players.

Iron Man 2 (US1) said:

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

Some men, you just can't reach.

georgecastle (INT2) said:

- Will it be in green map or it will be as outer realms event?

It's a new realm

blueninja691 (US1) said:

Will this be a cross-server event like outer realms?

Yes

bernhardt (US1) said:

What if your alliance has less than 20 members?  Can you partner with another alliance to fill one event alliance?

No

bernhardt (US1) said:

Can you switch alliances once there?

No

bernhardt (US1) said:

My prediction:  Low participation due to lousy teasers, lack of information and poor GGE track record.

I advise against becoming a Clairvoyent 

bernhardt (US1) said:

Obviously the connection between the teasers and this new event involves taking some mind altering drugs in order to have a chance to see it.

Maybe stopping to take them in the first place might help

sarah1 (INT2) said:

Do we have an a starting castle?

You'll start with level 11

sarah1 (INT2) said:

Will it start at 10 am or 12 am? Or will it be late as usuall again

It's more like Gandalf...

Wasso (INT3) said:

Didn't see anywhere the connection being made, other than the Man with the Monkey...……….

There's none so blind as they that won't see.

Aegon Targaryen (INT2) said:

Looks great and like the art really. Concept and system on first view is promising, sounds interesting and will just wait for it to start to see how it will work in general. 

I hope you enjoy it.

You don't sound very optimistic

LegendaryKing73 (GB1) said:

See @Wiglema (NL1) this is how it will always be. If there is a bug in the game, the topic will be dealt with, when it comes to players who spend real money only to be shafted like @mazorini (SKN1) then the mods and their cohorts are nowhere to be seen. 

Zoe said:

LegendaryKing73 (GB1) said:

See @Wiglema (NL1) this is how it will always be. If there is a bug in the game, the topic will be dealt with, when it comes to players who spend real money only to be shafted like @mazorini (SKN1) then the mods and their cohorts are nowhere to be seen. 

I simply replied to post I was tagged in... 
Generally, whenever problem with payments/rubies happens, player needs to contact support, as there’s nothing we (mods) can do about it.

Wiglema (NL1) said:

The mods are not the issue. They usually forward players' concerns to GGS, be it sooner or later. But there, at GGS, it usually stops, unless the problem is negative for their income.

BTW, as a nonpaying player, I don't demand anything. Everything I report, is only in the hope that it may improve the game for every player, regardless whether playing or paying. Over the years, that hope is waning though...