Forum: empire-en
Board: [584] Players ask Players
Topic: [75662] Defensive/offense Mechanics question
[-75662]
DrIon [None]
:: Aug. 5, 2012, 12:41 a.m.
I was trying to find some info in forum for these, but couldn't. It's not very well organized as I pointed it out in suggestions idea, but anyways, here's what I'm a bit not clear about:
1. How do bulwarks scale against iron mantlets? (do they cancel each other out?).
2. How does defense work against waves of attack? Do walls replenish the soldier numbers each wave?
3. If I have 100 halberds and 100 longbows, I calculated that their against-meele and against-ranged defenses (100*(51+135) and 100*(45 + 125)) can withstand 170two-handed and 184h.crossbows... is that true?
4. In middle flank, you are facing gates and walls... However, if you bring one of those (say gates) defense to 0%, do walls still add to the defense counter? I'm asking this cause logically if you break gates down your soldiers can get past walls through the opening lol.
Thanks for any useful info for these questions
Suggestion: Please make a defense/offense guide and sticky it (not just for robber barons).
1. How do bulwarks scale against iron mantlets? (do they cancel each other out?).
2. How does defense work against waves of attack? Do walls replenish the soldier numbers each wave?
3. If I have 100 halberds and 100 longbows, I calculated that their against-meele and against-ranged defenses (100*(51+135) and 100*(45 + 125)) can withstand 170two-handed and 184h.crossbows... is that true?
4. In middle flank, you are facing gates and walls... However, if you bring one of those (say gates) defense to 0%, do walls still add to the defense counter? I'm asking this cause logically if you break gates down your soldiers can get past walls through the opening lol.
Thanks for any useful info for these questions
Suggestion: Please make a defense/offense guide and sticky it (not just for robber barons).
[1372052]
BobFighter834 (INT2) [None]
:: Aug. 5, 2012, 6:55 a.m.
1. Let's say that a player has a bulwark on their right flank. You attack them with 5 (normal) mantlets. The bulwark's power is reduced to 0 so the power of the ranged soldiers is 100%.
Let's say that a player has no bulwarks (or flaming arrows) on their left flank. You attack them with 10 (ruby) iron mantlets. The power of the ranged defenders goes to 0% i.e. they have no attack power.
Mantlets can reduce ranged defender's power to 0%; it cannot go below that, but it can go below 100%.
2. Let's say that there are 100 longbows in the middle. I attack with my first wave, and kill 55. The 45 that survived are still on the wall, but no new defenders come into play. I attack with my second waves, and kill the remaining 45. There are no more defenders in the middle. My third wave does not have to attack any soldiers in the middle; it simply goes straight through to the keep.
3. It is unknown exactly how battles are calculated, but maybe someone else can guess at the answer to that question.
4. Let's say I attack the middle flank and there is a 40% gate and 60% wall bonus. If I use 4 battering rams, I reduce the gate bonus to 0%, but the wall bonus remains. If I use 6 scaling ladders, I reduce the wall bonus to 0%. To reduce both to 0%, I need to use both sets of tools - 4 battering rams and 6 scaling ladders.
Let's say that a player has no bulwarks (or flaming arrows) on their left flank. You attack them with 10 (ruby) iron mantlets. The power of the ranged defenders goes to 0% i.e. they have no attack power.
Mantlets can reduce ranged defender's power to 0%; it cannot go below that, but it can go below 100%.
2. Let's say that there are 100 longbows in the middle. I attack with my first wave, and kill 55. The 45 that survived are still on the wall, but no new defenders come into play. I attack with my second waves, and kill the remaining 45. There are no more defenders in the middle. My third wave does not have to attack any soldiers in the middle; it simply goes straight through to the keep.
3. It is unknown exactly how battles are calculated, but maybe someone else can guess at the answer to that question.
4. Let's say I attack the middle flank and there is a 40% gate and 60% wall bonus. If I use 4 battering rams, I reduce the gate bonus to 0%, but the wall bonus remains. If I use 6 scaling ladders, I reduce the wall bonus to 0%. To reduce both to 0%, I need to use both sets of tools - 4 battering rams and 6 scaling ladders.
[1372086]
ArjenChampion (NL1) [None]
:: Aug. 5, 2012, 8:43 a.m.
How does that apply to the second and further waves? Do you have to bring tools to reduce bonus in each wave or is one time sufficient for all waves?4. Let's say I attack the middle flank and there is a 40% gate and 60% wall bonus. If I use 4 battering rams, I reduce the gate bonus to 0%, but the wall bonus remains. If I use 6 scaling ladders, I reduce the wall bonus to 0%. To reduce both to 0%, I need to use both sets of tools - 4 battering rams and 6 scaling ladders.
[1372092]
BobFighter834 (INT2) [None]
:: Aug. 5, 2012, 8:51 a.m.
ArjenChampion wrote: »How does that apply to the second and further waves? Do you have to bring tools to reduce bonus in each wave or is one time sufficient for all waves?
I think that you have to bring tools in each wave.
[1372096]
xJadetsssx [None]
:: Aug. 5, 2012, 8:56 a.m.
ArjenChampion wrote: »How does that apply to the second and further waves? Do you have to bring tools to reduce bonus in each wave or is one time sufficient for all waves?
you will have to use tools for every wave even if your opponent doesn't have tools he still gets walls and gate bonus in all the waves
[1372116]
ArjenChampion (NL1) [None]
:: Aug. 5, 2012, 10:05 a.m.
Thx guys, I was expecting this but nice to have it confirmed.
[1372133]
MaJeStiic [None]
:: Aug. 5, 2012, 10:33 a.m.
How about this one. If your ranged defense is 250% and your longbowman have stats of 51/125. Since they are ranged defenders do their stats change to 127.5/312.5? Or does only the ranged defense stat for both ranged and melee defense soldiers take effect? For example Halberdier 135/112.5 and Longbowman 51/312.5.
Anyone know?
Anyone know?
[1372134]
xJadetsssx [None]
:: Aug. 5, 2012, 10:35 a.m.
How about this one. If your ranged defense is 250% and your longbowman have stats of 51/125. Since they are ranged defenders do their stats change to 127.5/312.5? Or does only the ranged defense stat for both ranged and melee defense soldiers take effect? For example Halberdier 135/112.5 and Longbowman 51/312.5.
Anyone know?
the ranged defense bonus only applies to ranged units, and it increases both melee and ranged defense power of that type of soldiers
[1372136]
MaJeStiic [None]
:: Aug. 5, 2012, 10:47 a.m.
xJadetsssx wrote: »the ranged defense bonus only applies to ranged units, and it increases both melee and ranged defense power of that type of soldiers
Okay how about this. If someone attacks your castle and you have a 60% wall bonus but they don't use any tools. Are your defense soldiers 60% more powerful in all stats?
[1372137]
xJadetsssx [None]
:: Aug. 5, 2012, 10:49 a.m.
yes, that is correct
[1372138]
MaJeStiic [None]
:: Aug. 5, 2012, 10:51 a.m.
[1372211]
DrIon [None]
:: Aug. 5, 2012, 4:33 p.m.
thanks for all the useful info, cleared up some things for me 
Although, I am still not clear on the 3rd question, but it doesn't look like anyone knows exactly how it works lol. Though the game developers probably want to keep it a secret so players don't calculate things to exact outcome
Although, I am still not clear on the 3rd question, but it doesn't look like anyone knows exactly how it works lol. Though the game developers probably want to keep it a secret so players don't calculate things to exact outcome
[1372352]
ToTheMax [None]
:: Aug. 5, 2012, 10:02 p.m.
Thanks for it too
[1372566]
FriedrichEngels (DE1) [None]
:: Aug. 6, 2012, 2:16 p.m.
BobFighter834 wrote: »1. Let's say that a player has a bulwark on their right flank. You attack them with 5 (normal) mantlets. The bulwark's power is reduced to 0 so the power of the ranged soldiers is 100%.
Let's say that a player has no bulwarks (or flaming arrows) on their left flank. You attack them with 10 (ruby) iron mantlets. The power of the ranged defenders goes to 0% i.e. they have no attack power.
Mantlets can reduce ranged defender's power to 0%; it cannot go below that, but it can go below 100%.
So, in theory, if I use enough mantlets/ iron mantlets / Shield walls to bring down the defending rangers to 0%, I can send a pure crossbowmen attack and dont have to fear heavy losses? Thats intriguing...
Although you will always be able to counter that as a defender with a pure melee defense and even out the natural disadvantage with better wall and moat defenses, because the attacker only gets 2 tool slots per wave, one of which is already taken by the mantlets... hmm.
I guess there's no perfect attack after all... too bad.
[1372570]
FriedrichEngels (DE1) [None]
:: Aug. 6, 2012, 2:20 p.m.
BobFighter834 wrote: »1. Let's say that a player has a bulwark on their right flank. You attack them with 5 (normal) mantlets. The bulwark's power is reduced to 0 so the power of the ranged soldiers is 100%.
Let's say that a player has no bulwarks (or flaming arrows) on their left flank. You attack them with 10 (ruby) iron mantlets. The power of the ranged defenders goes to 0% i.e. they have no attack power.
Mantlets can reduce ranged defender's power to 0%; it cannot go below that, but it can go below 100%.
So, in theory, if I use enough mantlets/ iron mantlets / Shield walls to bring down the defending rangers to 0%, I can send a pure crossbowmen attack and dont have to fear heavy losses? Thats intriguing...
Although you will always be able to counter that as a defender with a pure melee defense and even out the natural disadvantage with better wall and moat defenses, because the attacker only gets 2 tool slots per wave, one of which is already taken by the mantlets... hmm.
I guess there's no perfect attack after all... too bad.
[1372594]
BobFighter834 (INT2) [None]
:: Aug. 6, 2012, 4:03 p.m.
Starting Line wrote: »So, in theory, if I use enough mantlets/ iron mantlets / Shield walls to bring down the defending rangers to 0%, I can send a pure crossbowmen attack and dont have to fear heavy losses? Thats intriguing...
Although you will always be able to counter that as a defender with a pure melee defense and even out the natural disadvantage with better wall and moat defenses, because the attacker only gets 2 tool slots per wave, one of which is already taken by the mantlets... hmm.
I guess there's no perfect attack after all... too bad.
Pure mantlets are not always a good idea on players, unless you know that they are offline and will stay offline until the attack is finished. They are usually a great idea on RBCs if they have full ranged flanks - just make sure that the flanks don't flip between the espionage and the attack.
You need all 20 slots for normal mantlets. With iron mantlets or shield walls, you need less, so you can use scaling ladders as well. However, if the flank is 100% ranged, there is no point in ladders - even 1 archer will defeat 10,000 longbowmen if the ranged defender's power is reduced to 0%.
[1372986]
FriedrichEngels (DE1) [None]
:: Aug. 7, 2012, 5:42 p.m.
I just fought a desert tower with pure melee soldiers, so im assuming there will be a pure range defense in the future.
Im gonna put your theory to the test and try to defeat them with 3 units then
Edit:
Once again, brilliant in theory but I realize they always come with bulwark or flaming arrow support at that level. So I would have to spend rubies just to prove a point to a computer... Not worth it.
Im gonna put your theory to the test and try to defeat them with 3 units then
Edit:
Once again, brilliant in theory but I realize they always come with bulwark or flaming arrow support at that level. So I would have to spend rubies just to prove a point to a computer... Not worth it.
[1373002]
BobFighter834 (INT2) [None]
:: Aug. 7, 2012, 6:27 p.m.
Starting Line wrote: »I just fought a desert tower with pure melee soldiers, so im assuming there will be a pure range defense in the future.
Im gonna put your theory to the test and try to defeat them with 3 units then
Edit:
Once again, brilliant in theory but I realize they always come with bulwark or flaming arrow support at that level. So I would have to spend gems just to prove a point to a computer... Not worth it.
BTW, you said gems instead of rubies... I'm assuming that that's from another MMORPG.
Anyway, I'm sure there's a low level RBC with full ranged. They might be just crossbowmen, but you could attack them with 3 archers (10 attack power) - they'd lose against just about anything.
[1373009]
xJadetsssx [None]
:: Aug. 7, 2012, 6:40 p.m.
BobFighter834 wrote: »Pure mantlets are not always a good idea on players, unless you know that they are offline and will stay offline until the attack is finished. They are usually a great idea on RBCs if they have full ranged flanks - just make sure that the flanks don't flip between the espionage and the attack.
You need all 20 slots for normal mantlets. With iron mantlets or shield walls, you need less, so you can use scaling ladders as well. However, if the flank is 100% ranged, there is no point in ladders - even 1 archer will defeat 10,000 longbowmen if the ranged defender's power is reduced to 0%.
That is not true bob, at least the final part
I was experimenting with different soldiers and I foulnd and RBC with no ranged bonuses (flaming arrows, bulwarks) in the middle, and full ranged defenses, I attacked with 20 normal mantlets, and 1 veteran Bowman, klled only 10 defenders instead of the 40+ even with the -100%, I try it again with another RBC but this time I used a normal maceman, and he killed all the 60 defenders
[1373063]
BobFighter834 (INT2) [None]
:: Aug. 7, 2012, 8:28 p.m.
xJadetsssx wrote: »That is not true bob, at least the final part
I was experimenting with different soldiers and I foulnd and RBC with no ranged bonuses (flaming arrows, bulwarks) in the middle, and full ranged defenses, I attacked with 20 normal mantlets, and 1 veteran Bowman, klled only 10 defenders instead of the 40+ even with the -100%, I try it again with another RBC but this time I used a normal maceman, and he killed all the 60 defenders
Interesting... maybe I was wrong. There could be a certain limit (5%? 25%?), but it definitely looks like it does go below 100%.