Forum: empire-en
Board: [584] Players ask Players
Topic: [76838] Tools
[-76838]
Sam4 (GB1) [None]
:: Sept. 9, 2012, 2:52 p.m.
I have a question. This is not a criticism, as that would be for the other section of the forum (though someone may have set up a poll about this there, who knows...)
Anywho, back to the question.
How the hell am I supposed to attack a player with armourer tools?
It's impossible and incredibly unfair. I am a recourse only player.
Let me give you an example. Lets look at a single side of the castle, where they have:
A fire Moat.
Machicolation x2
And an Arrow slit.
I will attempt to counteract this with the tools available to me:
I need to send 22 wooden bundles to firstly counteract the fire moat... OH WAIT X( I can only send a maximum of 20 tools!
Ok so I'm already screwed. And then it gets worse, what about the massive defence bonus from the machicolation? what about the massive bonus from their arrow slits? I'm screwed at even the first hurdle!
Armourer tools literally ruin the game for recourse only players. Admittedly I'd like to say congratulations to GGS for coming up with another way of scamming people out of their money while completely wrecking the game for recourse only players who are being left behind, as the gap gets BIGGER AND BIGGER.
However - if someone has a solution please post it here. I cannot think of one (except in a thread someone may have created in the suggestions part of the forum...)
But please someone tell me how there is any point in attacking any player as I move higher up the game where NEARLY everyone uses rubies to buy armourer tools?
http://en.board.goodgamestudios.com/empire/showthread.php?31234-Better-recourse-tools (related thread with poll)
Anywho, back to the question.
How the hell am I supposed to attack a player with armourer tools?
It's impossible and incredibly unfair. I am a recourse only player.
Let me give you an example. Lets look at a single side of the castle, where they have:
A fire Moat.
Machicolation x2
And an Arrow slit.
I will attempt to counteract this with the tools available to me:
I need to send 22 wooden bundles to firstly counteract the fire moat... OH WAIT X( I can only send a maximum of 20 tools!
Ok so I'm already screwed. And then it gets worse, what about the massive defence bonus from the machicolation? what about the massive bonus from their arrow slits? I'm screwed at even the first hurdle!
Armourer tools literally ruin the game for recourse only players. Admittedly I'd like to say congratulations to GGS for coming up with another way of scamming people out of their money while completely wrecking the game for recourse only players who are being left behind, as the gap gets BIGGER AND BIGGER.
However - if someone has a solution please post it here. I cannot think of one (except in a thread someone may have created in the suggestions part of the forum...)
But please someone tell me how there is any point in attacking any player as I move higher up the game where NEARLY everyone uses rubies to buy armourer tools?
http://en.board.goodgamestudios.com/empire/showthread.php?31234-Better-recourse-tools (related thread with poll)
[1388121]
Baldrick (GB1) [None]
:: Sept. 9, 2012, 3:03 p.m.
Either buy some rubies or don't attack players with armourer tools.
Sorry to be so negative but I think that's your best plan.
There is a massive gap between resource tools and armourer tools but I doubt there's anything that can be done about it due to the fact that resource tools need to be weaker than standard ruby tools.
Soon this game will have a distinct class system (if it doesn't already).
Royalty (those who can afford anything anytime)
The upper class (those who can afford pretty much whatever they want)
The middle class (those who can afford some of the things they want)
The working class (resource players)
Then it's robber barons after that.......
Sorry to be so negative but I think that's your best plan.
There is a massive gap between resource tools and armourer tools but I doubt there's anything that can be done about it due to the fact that resource tools need to be weaker than standard ruby tools.
Soon this game will have a distinct class system (if it doesn't already).
Royalty (those who can afford anything anytime)
The upper class (those who can afford pretty much whatever they want)
The middle class (those who can afford some of the things they want)
The working class (resource players)
Then it's robber barons after that.......
[1388127]
Sam4 (GB1) [None]
:: Sept. 9, 2012, 3:10 p.m.
Either buy some rubies or don't attack players with armourer tools.
Sorry to be so negative but I think that's your best plan.
There is a massive gap between resource tools and armourer tools but I doubt there's anything that can be done about it due to the fact that resource tools need to be weaker than standard ruby tools.
Soon this game will have a distinct class system (if it doesn't already).
Royalty (those who can afford anything anytime)
The upper class (those who can afford pretty much whatever they want)
The middle class (those who can afford some of the things they want)
The working class (resource players)
Then it's robber barons after that.......
I am in a reasonably large alliance, as we go to war with other reasonably large alliances. You are in En 1 as well as me Baldrick (I think you came from BSK and are now in protection in your own alliance?) and I think you would agree that if you are at war with another top alliance there are next to no non-ruby players to attack.
I think it's really unfair that people are just supposed to sit back and let this happen - it's such a defeatist attitude. I want SOMETHING done about it -because even you agree it's completely unfair. In fact, it's a complete piss take.
I would buy rubies if I could, but I cannot afford to - I'm about to go to university and I simply don't have the cash! I'm sure all non-ruby players are not buying rubies because most likely, they can't afford it or simply aren't allowed - and therefore they're penalized in-game because of this.
P.s. I would LOVE to have a Mod comment on this to express their views. That would be extremely interesting.
[1388129]
Baldrick (GB1) [None]
:: Sept. 9, 2012, 3:19 p.m.
Yeah Sam, there have been a few threads on this already.
I think the biggest problem is that if you increase resource tools they would become as strong as the standard ruby tools. Obviously this can't happen. One way to do it would be to increase the strength of the standard ruby tools. But then people would complain that the armourer tools aren't as good anymore.
I said it before, I think this is an error on GGS part. I don't think they realised how alienated resource players would be with this. After all there was nothing wrong with the standard ruby tools.
It's a tough predicament and one that cannot be solved easily.
I think the biggest problem is that if you increase resource tools they would become as strong as the standard ruby tools. Obviously this can't happen. One way to do it would be to increase the strength of the standard ruby tools. But then people would complain that the armourer tools aren't as good anymore.
I said it before, I think this is an error on GGS part. I don't think they realised how alienated resource players would be with this. After all there was nothing wrong with the standard ruby tools.
It's a tough predicament and one that cannot be solved easily.
[1388132]
Sam4 (GB1) [None]
:: Sept. 9, 2012, 3:26 p.m.
Yeah Sam, there have been a few threads on this already.
I think the biggest problem is that if you increase resource tools they would become as strong as the standard ruby tools. Obviously this can't happen. One way to do it would be to increase the strength of the standard ruby tools. But then people would complain that the armourer tools aren't as good anymore.
I said it before, I think this is an error on GGS part. I don't think they realised how alienated resource players would be with this. After all there was nothing wrong with the standard ruby tools.
It's a tough predicament and one that cannot be solved easily.
If you're referring to the one in the suggestions and criticisms section, that may have been me haha.
Well options could be that:
New recourse tools are created that are ALMOST as good as the original ruby tools;
Or simply get rid of the armourer tools - there was nothing wrong with the original tools and we all know armourer tools are just a money making scheme.
Or get rid of the original ruby tools while implementing the new recourse tools. Original ruby tools are now only just capable of keeping up with armourer ones.
Either way I know it's a tough predicament - but it's one that must be solved because, if you were in my situation, you would understand how suckish and unfair this awesome game is a lot of the time.
[1388134]
Baldrick (GB1) [None]
:: Sept. 9, 2012, 3:32 p.m.
Yes. To be honest I fell a bit intimidated by the armourer tools, and I use them.
I used to buy in bulk when the 50% discount was on, but you can't do that with the armourer.
For instance a heavy ram costs 31 rubies. An iron ram costs 14 (or 7 if you but with the 50% discount).
So the cost of a tool for ramming a gate has gone from 7 to 31 rubies. This is also totally unfair.
I think workshops level 4 and the ability to produce armourer tools there with the 50% discount (when it's available).
Level 4 workshops should also produce stronger resource tools. I think this is the best solution.
I used to buy in bulk when the 50% discount was on, but you can't do that with the armourer.
For instance a heavy ram costs 31 rubies. An iron ram costs 14 (or 7 if you but with the 50% discount).
So the cost of a tool for ramming a gate has gone from 7 to 31 rubies. This is also totally unfair.
I think workshops level 4 and the ability to produce armourer tools there with the 50% discount (when it's available).
Level 4 workshops should also produce stronger resource tools. I think this is the best solution.
[1388139]
DargDima238 [None]
:: Sept. 9, 2012, 4:01 p.m.
Nope, it is kind of hard to get armorer defense tools without buying rubies, but even that is possible. I am level 56 and never bought rubies. I have 4 bakeries, 1 training ground, and about 70 wall ruby tools, and 100 swamp snappers. Then I also donated like 2,000 rubies to alliance and paid 1,000s for siege tools, 999 rubies heroes and so on.
Then for the siege armorer tools you can just get them at the traveling knights event. I got 100 wall taking ones and around 50 gate. Only problem is the moat, but for that I always have enough rubies to buy a few scalling ladders. The moat ruby tools that give -10%. Don't know how they are called. That is usually enough. Though I would have liked for GGS to get in armorer moat tools into the event of travellers.
Then for the siege armorer tools you can just get them at the traveling knights event. I got 100 wall taking ones and around 50 gate. Only problem is the moat, but for that I always have enough rubies to buy a few scalling ladders. The moat ruby tools that give -10%. Don't know how they are called. That is usually enough. Though I would have liked for GGS to get in armorer moat tools into the event of travellers.
[1388161]
Baldrick (GB1) [None]
:: Sept. 9, 2012, 4:37 p.m.
Yeah Darg, it is possible to get ruby tools if you save up but then you've been playing longer than most.
And yes, again, I think there should be some kind of quest where defensive armourer tools can be won. I've mentioned this before.
And yes, again, I think there should be some kind of quest where defensive armourer tools can be won. I've mentioned this before.
[1388210]
DarkAdam327 [None]
:: Sept. 9, 2012, 5:40 p.m.
Agreed totally and also ruby buyers can get armorer attack tools and can easily make non ruby defence tools useless
[1388370]
Sam4 (GB1) [None]
:: Sept. 10, 2012, 9:30 a.m.
Yes. To be honest I fell a bit intimidated by the armourer tools, and I use them.
I used to buy in bulk when the 50% discount was on, but you can't do that with the armourer.
For instance a heavy ram costs 31 rubies. An iron ram costs 14 (or 7 if you but with the 50% discount).
So the cost of a tool for ramming a gate has gone from 7 to 31 rubies. This is also totally unfair.
I think workshops level 4 and the ability to produce armourer tools there with the 50% discount (when it's available).
Level 4 workshops should also produce stronger resource tools. I think this is the best solution.
I think this is a really good idea. Level 4 workshops producing stronger recourse tools - brilliant
[1388379]
Helmler [None]
:: Sept. 10, 2012, 10:10 a.m.
I think this is a really good idea. Level 4 workshops producing stronger recourse tools - brilliant
But then ruby players will complain and they will put in even more powerful ruby weapons...
If they only have a small number of ruby tools you could try sending some martyrs in the first wave to remove the tools, then hope you have enough in the rest of your waves to win. It is a problem when people have a lot of tools I agree, but don't think there is a solution. This type of game always favours people who spend cash as they need an incentive to buy so I don't see any balancing happening in the future.
[1388390]
Qin Shi [None]
:: Sept. 10, 2012, 10:41 a.m.
You are dumb. Just send two wave of one soldier in flank and gate to cancel Machicolation x2
And an Arrow slit, then send many soldiers and 20 bundles so that fire moat give only 10% defense. won't that solve problem?
And an Arrow slit, then send many soldiers and 20 bundles so that fire moat give only 10% defense. won't that solve problem?
[1388391]
Baldrick (GB1) [None]
:: Sept. 10, 2012, 10:45 a.m.
You are dumb. Just send two wave of one soldier in flank and gate to cancel Machicolation x2
And an Arrow slit, then send many soldiers and 20 bundles so that fire moat give only 10% defense. won't that solve problem?
You can put 99 tools in every slot and a lot of people do. Martyrs wont help with that I'm afraid.
[1388393]
Helmler [None]
:: Sept. 10, 2012, 10:50 a.m.
You are dumb.
No need to be like that.
Your idea is of course reliant on the castle he is attacking not having that many defenders, as you would lose a lot of attacking soldiers if you use 2 waves of 1 attacker to remove tools. Plus, if you are using martyrs and there is 1 fire moat (as in the example given) then you don't need the 20 bundles. Also the example given is pretty unrealistic anyway as I don't know any strong players who only have 1 tool in each slot. And you're basically repeating what I said anyway.
edit - darn you Baldrick, posting while I type :P
[1388402]
LegendaryKing64 [None]
:: Sept. 10, 2012, 11:55 a.m.
You can put 99 tools in every slot and a lot of people do. Martyrs wont help with that I'm afraid.
It depends on if the spying has been successful or not. Big rubie players play with very few guards because if their buildings are on fire, they can put them out at no considerable cost. However, a good spy report and a good overnight attack with some kamikaze soldiers to take down their defence tools i.e. three waves of maces. If you are lucky enough, then send another spy, and if there are very few defences left, attack with 3 waves of your strongest troops.
[1388404]
Qin Shi [None]
:: Sept. 10, 2012, 11:57 a.m.
yes, but in his case, there are only max of 2 machicolation( or whatever) anyway, defense alwayshave more advantage than attackYou can put 99 tools in every slot and a lot of people do. Martyrs wont help with that I'm afraid.
[1388407]
Sam4 (GB1) [None]
:: Sept. 10, 2012, 12:19 p.m.
yes, but in his case, there are only max of 2 machicolation( or whatever) anyway, defense alwayshave more advantage than attack
Also the example given is pretty unrealistic anyway as I don't know any strong players who only have 1 tool in each slot.
The example is not unrealistic (if you're referring to the one I made originally?), I was using the maximum number of tools per wave on one flank - don't get me started on how many tools you need for a full attack...
Carrying on,
Martyr attacks - HA!
1.You want people to send 99 waves to get rid of all the possible tools?
2. Martyr attacks are going to cost me honour, meaning I'm going to be stuck in 500th place on the rankings for the rest of my life.
This is no solution...
Again, ruby players will not complain - they have armourer tools for goodness sake which literally outclass everything. This is not about evening it up to so that recourse tools are just as good. Who knows how strong they should be, maybe a little less strong than the original ruby tools (/any of the other ideas that have been so far posted on both threads). New tools are needed so that recourse-only players aren't simply left behind to rot without a fighting chance - because believe me that's what it's like at the moment!
[1388417]
LegendaryKing64 [None]
:: Sept. 10, 2012, 12:38 p.m.
The example is not unrealistic (if you're referring to the one I made originally?), I was using the maximum number of tools per wave on one flank - don't get me started on how many tools you need for a full attack...
Carrying on,
Martyr attacks - HA!
1.You want people to send 99 waves to get rid of all the possible tools?
2. Martyr attacks are going to cost me honour, meaning I'm going to be stuck in 500th place on the rankings for the rest of my life.This is no solution...
Again, ruby players will not complain - they have armourer tools for goodness sake which literally outclass everything. This is not about evening it up to so that recourse tools are just as good. Who knows how strong they should be, maybe a little less strong than the original ruby tools (/any of the other ideas that have been so far posted on both threads). New tools are needed so that recourse-only players aren't simply left behind to rot without a fighting chance - because believe me that's what it's like at the moment!
It depends on what your priority is, honour or glory points. Do you want to be a King or a Knight? You can still get loads of glory even if you lose 100+ honour points. As they say, every little bit counts. I went into battle yesterday against someone and lost 112 honour, but I received more than 600 glory points, which was a bonus.
[1388472]
Sam4 (GB1) [None]
:: Sept. 10, 2012, 5:25 p.m.
LegendaryKing64 wrote: »It depends on what your priority is, honour or glory points. Do you want to be a King or a Knight? You can still get loads of glory even if you lose 100+ honour points. As they say, every little bit counts. I went into battle yesterday against someone and lost 112 honour, but I received more than 600 glory points, which was a bonus.
I don't think it's too much to ask that I would like to be able to participate in both these things?
What you're saying is, 'Not only is it pointless for you attack most people because you're going to get slaughtered, but collecting honour to be able to climb in the game rankings is no longer an option for you...'
Brilliant. Conclusion - we NEED better recourse defence troops. When do we NEED them? NOW!