Forum: empire-en
Board: [585] Technical Assistance
Topic: [77315] Incomplete Plunder
[-77315]
Tester2012 [None]
:: Sept. 20, 2012, 8:48 p.m.
I've noticed the last few days that I am not plunder 100% of the resources the surviving army should be able to carry. Scouted with 90% confidence, so while I don't expect perfect correspondence, it is way, way off.
See screenshots and calculations--
Scout:
Attachment not found.
Victory:
Attachment not found.
Survivors:
Attachment not found.
Calculations:
Attachment not found.
So, to summarize, my surviving troops were capable of carrying 15648 total resources but only brought back 8139. I'm not complaining about the amount, only that sending so many troops was a waste if they do not carry 100% of their ability.
Any thoughts, similar observations, etc?
T2012
See screenshots and calculations--
Scout:
Attachment not found.
Victory:
Attachment not found.
Survivors:
Attachment not found.
Calculations:
Attachment not found.
So, to summarize, my surviving troops were capable of carrying 15648 total resources but only brought back 8139. I'm not complaining about the amount, only that sending so many troops was a waste if they do not carry 100% of their ability.
Any thoughts, similar observations, etc?
T2012
[1392493]
xJadetsssx [None]
:: Sept. 20, 2012, 8:55 p.m.
It looks like you are forgetting about something you didnt mention, did have a lot of safe camp?, you will not get a lot of resources if that is true, and also you don't know what happens between the time of the espionage mission, and the actual time of Impact.
[1392496]
Tester2012 [None]
:: Sept. 20, 2012, 9:03 p.m.
Good call, but no help. He has 1 hideout tree and level 3 keep = 1750 protected resources. This player is inactive, I will scout post-hit next time as well.
I will be hitting a second player who has 20k of each resource to test again, will report those results as well.
Just had a thought--it may be possible that plunder is pro-rated or diminished due to fire damage. This player is inactive and is burning like crazy. Does that equal less plunder?
T2012
I will be hitting a second player who has 20k of each resource to test again, will report those results as well.
Just had a thought--it may be possible that plunder is pro-rated or diminished due to fire damage. This player is inactive and is burning like crazy. Does that equal less plunder?
T2012
[1392504]
xJadetsssx [None]
:: Sept. 20, 2012, 9:19 p.m.
I don't know if this is actually true, but I think lower level of the player, less loot you get
[1393040]
BobFighter834 (INT2) [None]
:: Sept. 22, 2012, 2:39 p.m.
I am fairly sure that there is a limit to the resources that you can actually plunder, disregarding safe camp. 1/3 sounded pretty good to me before but now it seems that it's somewhere around half.
While the resources shown weren't exactly half what you took, the economic espionage was only at 90% accuracy. If it was 100% accurate, it may have shown exactly double what you were able to loot.
While the resources shown weren't exactly half what you took, the economic espionage was only at 90% accuracy. If it was 100% accurate, it may have shown exactly double what you were able to loot.
[1393051]
famous nadin [None]
:: Sept. 22, 2012, 2:59 p.m.
but you dont get the actul amount dident your troops die?
[1393184]
BobFighter834 (INT2) [None]
:: Sept. 22, 2012, 7:32 p.m.
famous nadin wrote: »but you dont get the actul amount dident your troops die?
Look at the battle report. Only 12 troops died. I'm fairly sure that the OP didn't calculate their loot capacity into the potential loot, but even if he/she didn't, it wouldn't have made much difference.
[1394083]
Duterte (INT1) [None]
:: Sept. 25, 2012, 5:11 a.m.
Tester2012 wrote: »So, to summarize, my surviving troops were capable of carrying 15648 total resources but only brought back 8139. I'm not complaining about the amount, only that sending so many troops was a waste if they do not carry 100% of their ability.
Tester2012 wrote: »Good call, but no help. He has 1 hideout tree and level 3 keep = 1750 protected resources. This player is inactive, I will scout post-hit next time as well.
I will be hitting a second player who has 20k of each resource to test again, will report those results as well.
Just had a thought--it may be possible that plunder is pro-rated or diminished due to fire damage. This player is inactive and is burning like crazy. Does that equal less plunder?
T2012
Here's my guess on this...
[FONT="Courier New"]
Your capacity 15648/3 = 5216 each for wood/food/stone
Safe camp - 1750
------------------------------
= 3466 each for wood/food/stone (MAX)[/FONT]
The "divide by 3" formula seems to be pretty consistent in most loot cases of mine though of course it depends on what's left in the inventory for looting. Sometimes if one resource is less than the MAX loot allowable it gets topped up into the other resources like wood for example.
So 3466 might be your loot ceiling for each resource... I'm not sure what made it less but maybe the severely burning state of the buildings has a diminishing factor... some of your loot got burned too....
[1394816]
Tester2012 [None]
:: Sept. 26, 2012, 11:40 p.m.
To wrap this up, it appears the max loot is 20% of available resources. I consistently get 19-21% and always get 20% on 100% scouts within 5min of attack. Similarly, I never use 100% of available looting capacity of my troops, the limitation is always the resources available at the target.
Key here is that there are many, many attacks where you send too many troops. It's possible to send far more farming runs if you optimize troop count vs resources on hand, just takes more economic spying.
Also, I need to see if loot bags can overcome the 20% threshold.
More to come.
Key here is that there are many, many attacks where you send too many troops. It's possible to send far more farming runs if you optimize troop count vs resources on hand, just takes more economic spying.
Also, I need to see if loot bags can overcome the 20% threshold.
More to come.
[1394818]
Baldrick (GB1) [None]
:: Sept. 26, 2012, 11:54 p.m.
There could also be the possibility that someone else is farming this target and got there before you, reducing the amount of resources that you could plunder.
[1394825]
k3rb3r05 [None]
:: Sept. 27, 2012, 12:23 a.m.
Because I had the same curiosity when i first started playing, and no one would come up with a solid answer I sat down and through trial and error I worked out the formula below. I then plugged in the values and formulas in an spreadsheet, and knew what soldiers to bring along to maximize my output.
the formula to calculate resources to be looted is:
where y = the number of hideouts
keep in mind that it is seperate for each resource
example # 1
spy report shows 13,500 stone / 13,500 wood / 13500 food
'enemy' has a level 2 keep, so we subtract 1000 from ea. so:
available to plunder: 12,500 ea
12,500 * 25% = 3,125 ea
So, you would have to bring enough soldiers to carry a total of 3 * 3,125 = 9,375 resources
example #2 (for easy to compare values purposes, we keep the numbers on above example the same, but this time around we add hideouts)
let's say 5 hideouts
so safe resources = (5 * 750) + 1000 = 4,750
available to plunder = 13,500 - 4,750 = 8,750 ea
25 % of above = 2,187.5 and you need enough soldiers to carry 6,563 resources
Note: If you have hired marauder, it works as a free huge loot cart. you don't need extra soldiers to carry the extra loot that marauder gives you
the formula to calculate resources to be looted is:
x = (available resource - (keep safe + (y * 750))) * 25%
where y = the number of hideouts
keep in mind that it is seperate for each resource
example # 1
spy report shows 13,500 stone / 13,500 wood / 13500 food
'enemy' has a level 2 keep, so we subtract 1000 from ea. so:
available to plunder: 12,500 ea
12,500 * 25% = 3,125 ea
So, you would have to bring enough soldiers to carry a total of 3 * 3,125 = 9,375 resources
example #2 (for easy to compare values purposes, we keep the numbers on above example the same, but this time around we add hideouts)
let's say 5 hideouts
so safe resources = (5 * 750) + 1000 = 4,750
available to plunder = 13,500 - 4,750 = 8,750 ea
25 % of above = 2,187.5 and you need enough soldiers to carry 6,563 resources
Note: If you have hired marauder, it works as a free huge loot cart. you don't need extra soldiers to carry the extra loot that marauder gives you
[1394830]
Tester2012 [None]
:: Sept. 27, 2012, 12:33 a.m.
k3rb--perfect, we probably match up nearly perfect in that I don't reduce available loot due to keep+hideouts before calculating %. Therefore your 25% and my 20% are essentially the same unless there are inordinate # of hideouts.
Only question remaining is loot bag, loot cart, marauder effect. It would be nice if they could boost % above maximum, ESPECIALLY since you loose loot bag/carts even if they are not needed (ie you sent more troops than needed). --more like a programming bug--
I'll know more about loot bags in 1.5hrs
Only question remaining is loot bag, loot cart, marauder effect. It would be nice if they could boost % above maximum, ESPECIALLY since you loose loot bag/carts even if they are not needed (ie you sent more troops than needed). --more like a programming bug--
I'll know more about loot bags in 1.5hrs
[1394844]
J.I. Joe2 [None]
:: Sept. 27, 2012, 1:29 a.m.
Tester2012 wrote: »I've noticed the last few days that I am not plunder 100% of the resources the surviving army should be able to carry. Scouted with 90% confidence, so while I don't expect perfect correspondence, it is way, way off.
See screenshots and calculations--
So, to summarize, my surviving troops were capable of carrying 15648 total resources but only brought back 8139. I'm not complaining about the amount, only that sending so many troops was a waste if they do not carry 100% of their ability.
Any thoughts, similar observations, etc?
T2012
Hey dude,
It's possible someone else came in before you and looted him shortly after your espionage report and before you attacked his castle. I remember my members used to complain about this often, before they realised that I used to swoop in before them and steal a good 25k ressources per attack
Normally when I used to do Economic-Espionage on some inactive players for loot, I used to deplete the user with nearly the same amount that was reported by the spy report. Usually I was bringing back around 25k ressources, and that was around 6months ago with only 3 waves of attackers with only 690 soldiers. I didn't try to loot anyone since really, I don't have a need for it.
[1394845]
k3rb3r05 [None]
:: Sept. 27, 2012, 1:34 a.m.
but marauder does boost 20% of loot... so if u were to get 100, you now get 120 (but only need enough soldiers to carry 100)
same works with gold in rbc... + 20% (but you don't need x soldiers to carry the gold) as well as resources gained
carts/bags are usefull if you don't have enough soldiers to carry the loot. so if you were to plunder 100 but had enough soldiers for 80, you would bring a couple of bags with you. it would be unfair (as well as create huge imbalance) if bags/carts allowed to extract more from the player than what is already allowed to. I guess that's where marauder comes in. gives you 20% extra, for a certain cost, without affecting the 'looser'.
EDIT:
you might come across this issue: http://en.board.goodgamestudios.com/empire/showthread.php?27631-Inaccurate-economic-espionage&p=259643#post259643
it was posted a while back, dunno if they fixed it.
that was 6 months ago. a lot has changed in the game ever since. i guess the 25% looting allowance wasn't around 6 months ago. try attacking now, even if you don't have the need for it, and compare results from 6 months ago. you will never be able to deplete a player.
same works with gold in rbc... + 20% (but you don't need x soldiers to carry the gold) as well as resources gained
carts/bags are usefull if you don't have enough soldiers to carry the loot. so if you were to plunder 100 but had enough soldiers for 80, you would bring a couple of bags with you. it would be unfair (as well as create huge imbalance) if bags/carts allowed to extract more from the player than what is already allowed to. I guess that's where marauder comes in. gives you 20% extra, for a certain cost, without affecting the 'looser'.
EDIT:
you might come across this issue: http://en.board.goodgamestudios.com/empire/showthread.php?27631-Inaccurate-economic-espionage&p=259643#post259643
it was posted a while back, dunno if they fixed it.
Hey dude,
It's possible someone else came in before you and looted him shortly after your espionage report and before you attacked his castle. I remember my members used to complain about this often, before they realised that I used to swoop in before them and steal a good 25k ressources per attack
Normally when I used to do Economic-Espionage on some inactive players for loot, I used to deplete the user with nearly the same amount that was reported by the spy report. Usually I was bringing back around 25k ressources, and that was around 6months ago with only 3 waves of attackers with only 690 soldiers. I didn't try to loot anyone since really, I don't have a need for it.
that was 6 months ago. a lot has changed in the game ever since. i guess the 25% looting allowance wasn't around 6 months ago. try attacking now, even if you don't have the need for it, and compare results from 6 months ago. you will never be able to deplete a player.
[1394855]
Tester2012 [None]
:: Sept. 27, 2012, 2:22 a.m.
Hey dude,
It's possible someone else came in before you and looted him shortly after your espionage report and before you attacked his castle. I remember my members used to complain about this often, before they realised that I used to swoop in before them and steal a good 25k ressources per attack
Normally when I used to do Economic-Espionage on some inactive players for loot, I used to deplete the user with nearly the same amount that was reported by the spy report. Usually I was bringing back around 25k ressources, and that was around 6months ago with only 3 waves of attackers with only 690 soldiers. I didn't try to loot anyone since really, I don't have a need for it.
Yes, this is not somebody swooping in before me. I have landed 100% economic scouts seconds before the hit, trust me AND I have scouted after the hit to see much resources remaining (over and above those protected by keep+hideouts). Trust me--You are limited in the amount of resources available to loot somewhere between 20-25% depending on how you calculate it.
The only reason I bring it up is so that you can adjust how many troops you send on farming runs. I was sending 300+ macemen when only 120 where necessary. I could've had 2-3 more farming waves going simultaneously, right?
Anyways. My loot bag test was inconclusive due to a non-100% scout, I'll work on that. k3rb seems knowledgeable, trust his results (and mine!).
[1394862]
xJadetsssx [None]
:: Sept. 27, 2012, 2:55 a.m.
but marauder does boost 20% of loot... so if u were to get 100, you now get 120 (but only need enough soldiers to carry 100)
same works with gold in rbc... + 20% (but you don't need x soldiers to carry the gold) as well as resources gained
carts/bags are usefull if you don't have enough soldiers to carry the loot. so if you were to plunder 100 but had enough soldiers for 80, you would bring a couple of bags with you. it would be unfair (as well as create huge imbalance) if bags/carts allowed to extract more from the player than what is already allowed to. I guess that's where marauder comes in. gives you 20% extra, for a certain cost, without affecting the 'looser'.
EDIT:
you might come across this issue: http://en.board.goodgamestudios.com/empire/showthread.php?27631-Inaccurate-economic-espionage&p=259643#post259643
it was posted a while back, dunno if they fixed it.
Also the plundering log of research increase the loot you get up to 40%
[1394905]
k3rb3r05 [None]
:: Sept. 27, 2012, 7:28 a.m.
So you won't go looking, what jade said, the plundering log, is one of the research-tree options. Works just like marauder (but is permanent effect once you research it). 8% per level , 5 levels. But since you are still attacking with maces , you got long ways to go to level 39, where you unlock reaserch tower, where first priority is to get vets (veteran soldiers). For getting vets you will need (totally) 331,000 wood, 340,000 stone, and 29 days,22 hrs of research time. A sub-requirement to getting vets is plundering log level 2 (already included in the total cost and total time) and that will give you +16% plundering.