Forum: empire-en
Board: [589] Strategy & Tactics Discussion
Topic: [106115] The best commanders
[-106115]
tresiel [None]
:: April 27, 2014, 3:39 a.m.
A few of your are confused about what a strong commander is.
Well I'm going to help you out here by letting you know which commander bonuses are the best.
Cliffs:
Wall > Gate > Moat > Everything else
The best is wall. Why? Cause everyone has a wall. Even a level 1 player who just started has a wall. And since both sides can use tools, that means you need to cancel out wall without relying on your tools' bonus. So make sure you get a ton of wall bonus.
The second best is gate. This paired with wall will ensure that you will always break through the defenders if he ever defends middle. This gives you control. When you use a gate heavy commander, you KNOW your opponent will be defending the flanks.
The third is moat. It's just like the wall, except that it's bonus is higher per tool, so it's weaker than wall (on defense. The reverse for offense). You want to cancel out as many tools as possible right? Then get a strong moat commander.
The fourth perk you'd want would be late detect. This isn't as important since it focuses on your opponent messing up rather than you successfully pounding him down. This makes sure that your opponent doesn't even see your hit coming so that he won't be able to set up a defense. However, if he has a early detect cast, it'll render your bonus useless.
The fifth would be speed. Speed is great, especially when paired with late detect. If he does see your attack coming, he'll only have 30 seconds before your army actually hits, meaning poor defenses. Offensively, this is better used for RV sneak attacks than hitting a main castle.
The sixth would be travel costs. When you get to the endgame, armies get really big, and you can drop 20,000 gold on just moving your army around. A travel cost commander lets you use all of that gold for recruiting more troops to wreck the opponent with. Travel cost can be reduced to -100%, basically sending your troops out for free
If you have KG units, 20,000 gold = 135.1 CBKG with no alliance help. (270 with) That means, every time you send your army out, you saved 135 CBKG. I'm sure you can see how it adds up.
The seventh would be tied for honor or glory. It depends on what you want. Honor gets you horrors, glory gets you KG.
Eighth would have to be melee troop combat strength. This doesn't do anything once you get to endgame, since your researched veteran or Kingsguard troops will be so powerful that bonus attack doesn't do anything for them. It's just so much more important to make sure you break down wall/gate/moat before worrying about beefing up your soldiers.
-100 wall vs 90% melee?
Well, a melee troop vs a melee troop with 100% wall is weaker than a 90% melee troop vs a melee troop.
1 vs 1 + (100% x 1)
or
1 vs 1 + (90% x 1)
It's easy to see the difference.
The worst in the game would have to be ranged troop combat strength. I HIGHLY recommend that you scrap any piece that has this. This is by far THE WORST trait to have on a piece of equipment. Beefing up your ranged soldiers doesn't do much at all. At endgame, you can take all 4 pieces of your equipment to get a maximum of +90% ranged attack. That means you get 190% ranged attack.
However, a defender gets to use tools such as arrow slits to beef up his ranged defense up 280% for a total of 380% defense. TWICE of what your can get on your commander! With game mechanics, a ranged defender counters a ranged attacker. Now imagine what double ranged defenders can do?
There are three wild card bonuses: fire damage, loot, and building destroy which max out at +50%, +?%, and +5% respectively. They don't affect the actual battle, so I haven't put them in this guide. They only take effect after the battle is over.
Listen to me and build your commanders like this.
Here's a few hits I had over the past week using NO RUBIES and only resource/in-game tools.
And following the same theory, some defenses using resource/in-game tools against ruby and armorer attacks.
MISC-ENDORSED
Note: Ignore anyone saying troll. They don't have resource reports like me and they're all just jealous of the MISC anyways. If you can't put up, shut up.
EDIT:
Some of you don't believe those were resource hits. Well here you go. The ones you can't see tools on are the ones that were defeats. You don't see what the defender used if you lost.
Well I'm going to help you out here by letting you know which commander bonuses are the best.
Cliffs:
Wall > Gate > Moat > Everything else
The best is wall. Why? Cause everyone has a wall. Even a level 1 player who just started has a wall. And since both sides can use tools, that means you need to cancel out wall without relying on your tools' bonus. So make sure you get a ton of wall bonus.
The second best is gate. This paired with wall will ensure that you will always break through the defenders if he ever defends middle. This gives you control. When you use a gate heavy commander, you KNOW your opponent will be defending the flanks.
The third is moat. It's just like the wall, except that it's bonus is higher per tool, so it's weaker than wall (on defense. The reverse for offense). You want to cancel out as many tools as possible right? Then get a strong moat commander.
The fourth perk you'd want would be late detect. This isn't as important since it focuses on your opponent messing up rather than you successfully pounding him down. This makes sure that your opponent doesn't even see your hit coming so that he won't be able to set up a defense. However, if he has a early detect cast, it'll render your bonus useless.
The fifth would be speed. Speed is great, especially when paired with late detect. If he does see your attack coming, he'll only have 30 seconds before your army actually hits, meaning poor defenses. Offensively, this is better used for RV sneak attacks than hitting a main castle.
The sixth would be travel costs. When you get to the endgame, armies get really big, and you can drop 20,000 gold on just moving your army around. A travel cost commander lets you use all of that gold for recruiting more troops to wreck the opponent with. Travel cost can be reduced to -100%, basically sending your troops out for free
If you have KG units, 20,000 gold = 135.1 CBKG with no alliance help. (270 with) That means, every time you send your army out, you saved 135 CBKG. I'm sure you can see how it adds up.
The seventh would be tied for honor or glory. It depends on what you want. Honor gets you horrors, glory gets you KG.
Eighth would have to be melee troop combat strength. This doesn't do anything once you get to endgame, since your researched veteran or Kingsguard troops will be so powerful that bonus attack doesn't do anything for them. It's just so much more important to make sure you break down wall/gate/moat before worrying about beefing up your soldiers.
-100 wall vs 90% melee?
Well, a melee troop vs a melee troop with 100% wall is weaker than a 90% melee troop vs a melee troop.
1 vs 1 + (100% x 1)
or
1 vs 1 + (90% x 1)
It's easy to see the difference.
The worst in the game would have to be ranged troop combat strength. I HIGHLY recommend that you scrap any piece that has this. This is by far THE WORST trait to have on a piece of equipment. Beefing up your ranged soldiers doesn't do much at all. At endgame, you can take all 4 pieces of your equipment to get a maximum of +90% ranged attack. That means you get 190% ranged attack.
However, a defender gets to use tools such as arrow slits to beef up his ranged defense up 280% for a total of 380% defense. TWICE of what your can get on your commander! With game mechanics, a ranged defender counters a ranged attacker. Now imagine what double ranged defenders can do?
There are three wild card bonuses: fire damage, loot, and building destroy which max out at +50%, +?%, and +5% respectively. They don't affect the actual battle, so I haven't put them in this guide. They only take effect after the battle is over.
Listen to me and build your commanders like this.
Here's a few hits I had over the past week using NO RUBIES and only resource/in-game tools.
And following the same theory, some defenses using resource/in-game tools against ruby and armorer attacks.
MISC-ENDORSED
Note: Ignore anyone saying troll. They don't have resource reports like me and they're all just jealous of the MISC anyways. If you can't put up, shut up.
EDIT:
Some of you don't believe those were resource hits. Well here you go. The ones you can't see tools on are the ones that were defeats. You don't see what the defender used if you lost.
[1748799]
dragon21 (US1) [None]
:: April 27, 2014, 3:43 a.m.
i can confirm. tres is a strong strategist and helps me set up my attacks and defense with great success. i endorse this post.
[1748805]
Urúvion (US1) [None]
:: April 27, 2014, 3:52 a.m.
Everyone listen to Tresiel, don't use equipment with ranged attack bonus, no, never use it, ever, it's terrible, especially when pared with mantlets, worst attack set up ever, +% more fires is much better.
[1748809]
tresiel [None]
:: April 27, 2014, 3:56 a.m.
Great advice! Your right, ranged attack bonus is terrible, never use it. Everyone listen to Tresiel, don't use equipment with ranged attack bonus, no, never use it, ever, it's terrible, +% more fires is much better.
Well you see, I don't know about that. +fire is great and all, but it only takes place after the battle is over. So even +ranged would be better than +fire IF YOU'RE ONLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE BATTLE.
However, I still recommend you rack up a crazy -100wall, -50gate or better commander if you can.
[1748810]
Aestheticus [None]
:: April 27, 2014, 3:56 a.m.
Everyone listen to Tresiel, don't use equipment with ranged attack bonus, no, never use it, ever, it's terrible, especially when pared with mantlets, worst attack set up ever, +% more fires is much better.
Range bonus is not needed, when you come in with a 90 wall, 90 gate, 90 moat commander you guaranteed yourself a win on the wall no matter what defense they use on you. 320 down from the enemies wall and more of your own troops in the keep
[1748815]
Urúvion (US1) [None]
:: April 27, 2014, 4:01 a.m.
Well you see, I don't know about that. +fire is great and all, but it only takes place after the battle is over. So even +ranged would be better than +fire IF YOU'RE ONLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE BATTLE
But if they have fires, then they need to use the water to put them out, and then the troops die from thirst, so the enemy can't attack you
[1748817]
tresiel [None]
:: April 27, 2014, 4:03 a.m.
But if they have fires, then they need to use the water to put them out, and then the troops die from thirst, so the enemy can't attack you
Plz stop trolling.
We all know GGE troops run on bread. There's no water resource provided.
Like I said, this thread is only concerned about what happens during the battle, not how their castles are affected afterwards.
[1748871]
pajeg2 (GB1) [None]
:: April 27, 2014, 5:49 a.m.
And following the same theory, some defenses using resource/in-game tools against ruby and armorer attacks.
very strong armorer attack indeed, lol
[1748874]
Muscles [None]
:: April 27, 2014, 5:52 a.m.
I can't figure out why melee and ranged equipment is useless. But maybe that's because I've had way to much to drink tonight - and other things too. Does anyone know how to stop the letters I'm typing from floating off my computer screen?
[1748875]
pajeg2 (GB1) [None]
:: April 27, 2014, 5:53 a.m.
it's just a joke you know
[1748877]
I Shall Rise (US1) [None]
:: April 27, 2014, 5:58 a.m.
Thankyou for enlightening me tresiel. I immeditely sold every piece of eq I had with ranged on it after reading your superb post. I feel confident I will now be able to wipe out the biggest ruby buyers in the game even with resource tools thanks to my superior strategical edge and superb wall/gate/honor commander.
[1748884]
therealsporer (US1) [None]
:: April 27, 2014, 6:27 a.m.
I Shall Rise wrote: »Thankyou for enlightening me tresiel. I immeditely sold every piece of eq I had with ranged on it after reading your superb post. I feel confident I will now be able to wipe out the biggest ruby buyers in the game even with resource tools thanks to my superior strategical edge and superb wall/gate/honor commander.
The real trick Tresiel didn't even go into. He has to hold back because the MISC code prevents him from revealing some secrets, but i have no such restrictions.
If you want to get good equipment like tresiel describes you have start by maxing out your find better equipment commanders. It is tough at first, but don't worry after a while you'll have more "find better equipment" equipments than you could ever need!
I hope that this helps you get the ball rolling on your new commanders!
[1748893]
Unknown
:: April 27, 2014, 6:44 a.m.
I was laughing at first, before i realised that you were being serious.
[1748904]
SadhappyRuler (ASIA1) [None]
:: April 27, 2014, 6:58 a.m.
I 100% DISAGREE with tresiel!
I feel sorry for I shall rise
You lost all your ranged equipment.
FIRST OF ALL, ranged commander with shield walls is BY FAR the MOST powerful attack. You just have to include enough shield walls in the first two waves to take down all the ranged defenders & in the next two waves use belfries with Boulders to crush the melee defenders. This, however HIGHLY depends on the commander vs castelan battle.
With no ranged or melee bonus against a 90/90 commander in the keep, you usually stand no chance if there is some support available. Okay, you will start arguing. So, lets put it in action without baseless arguments-
Conditions for battle-
I have level 5 walls, gate & towers. I have unlimited armourer tools and 2K defenders. I also defend every attack with a 90/90 melee/ranged castelan.Also, I can only defend with vets.
You have unlimited soldiers but only 1280 per attack you have 520 tools per attack. You have unlimited armourer tools. But you have only a single commander which is 120 wall, 90 gates & 80 moat. Also, you can only attack with vets.
So, tell me how you're gonna attack. Just try as you want. You will come to know about the importance of melee & ranged bonouses.
Also, don't worry about the attack I listed above. You can defend against it with a 90 melee castellan, vet swords & vet bowmen ( vet bowmen in the keep & vet swords on the wall). If you have a 90/90 melee/ ranged castellan against this, then winning would be super easy.
Also, you are flawed in your own calculations. The priority is Moat > wall > Gate. Why? Its so simple. You can only deduct 15 % moat bonus with 1 tool but you can deduct 20% wall protection. Gate is least important because its so easy to see why. You have only 1 gate not 3 gates so wall & moat is better than gate.
However, the moat & wall fight for the number one position. As sometimes if you have 80% moat bonus over 120% wall bonus then the defenders might as well use machicolations. So sometimes wall is better. Sometimes moat is better. I still need help to deduce why but I somewhat know whats going on.
The above priority is below melee & ranged bonouses. However, if you're attacking with all ranged then melee is useless. Same applies to all melee.
Edit: As therealspooner said, you should get some find better Equipments. I'm not how it works, but I think it does work. I think if you have 'just right' of it ( not too much not too little) then it might benifit you.
I feel sorry for I shall rise
You lost all your ranged equipment.FIRST OF ALL, ranged commander with shield walls is BY FAR the MOST powerful attack. You just have to include enough shield walls in the first two waves to take down all the ranged defenders & in the next two waves use belfries with Boulders to crush the melee defenders. This, however HIGHLY depends on the commander vs castelan battle.
With no ranged or melee bonus against a 90/90 commander in the keep, you usually stand no chance if there is some support available. Okay, you will start arguing. So, lets put it in action without baseless arguments-
Conditions for battle-
I have level 5 walls, gate & towers. I have unlimited armourer tools and 2K defenders. I also defend every attack with a 90/90 melee/ranged castelan.Also, I can only defend with vets.
You have unlimited soldiers but only 1280 per attack you have 520 tools per attack. You have unlimited armourer tools. But you have only a single commander which is 120 wall, 90 gates & 80 moat. Also, you can only attack with vets.
So, tell me how you're gonna attack. Just try as you want. You will come to know about the importance of melee & ranged bonouses.
Also, don't worry about the attack I listed above. You can defend against it with a 90 melee castellan, vet swords & vet bowmen ( vet bowmen in the keep & vet swords on the wall). If you have a 90/90 melee/ ranged castellan against this, then winning would be super easy.
Also, you are flawed in your own calculations. The priority is Moat > wall > Gate. Why? Its so simple. You can only deduct 15 % moat bonus with 1 tool but you can deduct 20% wall protection. Gate is least important because its so easy to see why. You have only 1 gate not 3 gates so wall & moat is better than gate.
However, the moat & wall fight for the number one position. As sometimes if you have 80% moat bonus over 120% wall bonus then the defenders might as well use machicolations. So sometimes wall is better. Sometimes moat is better. I still need help to deduce why but I somewhat know whats going on.
The above priority is below melee & ranged bonouses. However, if you're attacking with all ranged then melee is useless. Same applies to all melee.
Edit: As therealspooner said, you should get some find better Equipments. I'm not how it works, but I think it does work. I think if you have 'just right' of it ( not too much not too little) then it might benifit you.
[1748920]
tresiel [None]
:: April 27, 2014, 8:30 a.m.
very strong armorer attack indeed, lol
I've lost the armorer report. Mmmouser was armorer defended ruby and corestorm was the lost report defended natty. Easy wins.
If you think there's something wrong, come at me. I'll wipe your attacks and then we'll burn you.
Does Santos, I'm on my phone so I'll respond to you later.
[1748924]
tresiel [None]
:: April 27, 2014, 8:40 a.m.
BTW, put up or shut up. gimme some joocy reports Santo or I'll just ignore you since your theory evidently does not work.
[1748932]
Heartnoir (US1) [US1]
:: April 27, 2014, 9:03 a.m.
I've lost the armorer report. Mmmouser was armorer defended ruby and corestorm was the lost report defended natty. Easy wins.
If you think there's something wrong, come at me. I'll wipe your attacks and then we'll burn you.
Tre,
Would you like Serry to come at you again? You know you do. ^^
[1748943]
Unknown
:: April 27, 2014, 9:54 a.m.
tresiel, if we do what you do then we'll have our troops wiped out at the keep, if the defender's castelean is 90 90 melee ranged then a commander with no melee or ranged bonuses won't have a chance at defeating the enemy at the keep. Even if you break through all walls your troops will only have 130% strength compared to the defenders 190% strength. Also, ranged commanders are very useful for NPC attacks, try beating some of the higher level storm forts with no ranged combat strength and compare it to the report of an attack on the same level storm fort with a 90 ranged commander.You'll see a big difference in the amount of troops that died. Also, you haven't shown the commander and castellean of those battle reports. How do we know that you aren't actually using a ranged commander.
[1748955]
jasper22 (INT1) [None]
:: April 27, 2014, 10:35 a.m.
Interesting suggestions. Their is one thing I wonder. looks to me that you priorities beating the 3 wall parts and getting the 30% bonus for the battle in the keep. However if you got zero melee/ranged power then is that battle for the keep not in the favor of the defender if they have a 90/90 castellan? I would think that you only have the 30% bonus by beating the wall. The defender has 90% bonus from his castellan ending up in a battle for the keep where the defender has 60% more troop power then you, unless there is some mechanism I don’t know about.
Considering the keep can potentially hold a lot more defenders then you can send even if you would loss zero attackers for the battle for the wall, would this 60% less power for the attacker not be a big problem at least against a player that gets some support or when attacking a player with a defensive focused empire.
Considering the keep can potentially hold a lot more defenders then you can send even if you would loss zero attackers for the battle for the wall, would this 60% less power for the attacker not be a big problem at least against a player that gets some support or when attacking a player with a defensive focused empire.
[1748960]
Unknown
:: April 27, 2014, 10:41 a.m.
Interesting suggestions. Their is one thing I wonder. looks to me that you priorities beating the 3 wall parts and getting the 30% bonus for the battle in the keep. However if you got zero melee/ranged power then is that battle for the keep not in the favor of the defender if they have a 90/90 castellan? I would think that you only have the 30% bonus by beating the wall. The defender has 90% bonus from his castellan ending up in a battle for the keep where the defender has 60% more troop power then you, unless there is some mechanism I don’t know about.
Considering the keep can potentially hold a lot more defenders then you can send even if you would loss zero attackers for the battle for the wall, would this 60% less power for the attacker not be a big problem at least against a player that gets some support or when attacking a player with a defensive focused empire.
Thank you, for repeating what i said.