Forum: empire-en

Board: [589] Strategy & Tactics Discussion

Topic: [286421] Melee/range castle wall defence percentage

[-286421] Queenrider (GB1) [GB1] :: Oct. 8, 2015, 12:31 p.m.

If I have all melee soldiers coming at me on one flank should i set that flank to `100% melee to defend. Also if I have all ranged coming on one flank should I put that to 100% range defence?

Thanks

[4148482] Asteria (AU1) [AU1] :: Oct. 8, 2015, 12:47 p.m.

Yes for defence melee against melee and ranged against ranged.

[4148508] Queenrider (GB1) [GB1] :: Oct. 8, 2015, 1:05 p.m.

Thank you.

[4152631] triceratops1 (HIS1) [None] :: Oct. 10, 2015, 6:57 p.m.

Candekmlefq (AU1) said:

Yes for defence melee against melee and ranged against ranged.

Sorry, but if the attacker uses enought shields/peasants, you must defend with melee and use machicolations/bombs as tools.

[4152740] furture (US1) [None] :: Oct. 10, 2015, 8:50 p.m.

queen rider, im sorry to have to tell you this.... no one knows until the attack is actually coming.

if i send all ranged on 1 flank in an attack on you, but used tons of mantlets... then even if you used all range troops and tools, your power for ranged troops would be 0% because i just used to many mantlets. so if you have melee troops that work with 100%, or range troops that have 0% power, melee is better

and if i sent melee troops at you and used a strong enough commander and war horns or wall tools, and you had fairly strong range defenders but weak melee ones, then i would advise you put up range troops and tools instead

really EVERY attack depends on the tools, the commander/castellan, and a little bit of guess work. we cant see what tools are on what wave when an attack comes, so we just use our best guess as to how they did it, and prep from there

there is 1 defense that i trust 99% of the time. vet swordsmen with lime bombs. vet swords are a melee troop, but have a high range AND melee defense. and because they are a melee troop, they can not have their power lowered by enemy troops. if you do not have access to lime bombs constantly, use wall tools and moat tools and gate tools. i have only seen vet sword defense be beat 1 or 2 times.

[4154040] Queenrider (GB1) [GB1] :: Oct. 12, 2015, 9 a.m.

Thank you all for you valuable suggestions and insights, very appreciated.

[4164309] MightyHawklord (GB1) [GB1] :: Oct. 18, 2015, 4:50 p.m.

furture (US1) said:

..............there is 1 defense that i trust 99% of the time. vet swordsmen with lime bombs. vet swords are a melee troop, but have a high range AND melee defense. and because they are a melee troop, they can not have their power lowered by enemy troops. if you do not have access to lime bombs constantly, use wall tools and moat tools and gate tools. i have only seen vet sword defense be beat 1 or 2 times.

problem with this is any defenders that are sent in support will replace the vet swordsmen on the wall,

only the strongest go on the wall, and vet swords are weaker than vet spearmen,
so the vet spearmen would replace the vet swords if 100% melee

most ranged defenders would also replace the vet swords if going 100% ranged

if a mixed melee/ranged support is sent then the same would happen

even if you have stronger melee defenders of your own then they replace the vet swords

[4164705] Petyr Baelish (IN1) [None] :: Oct. 19, 2015, 1:15 a.m.

furture (US1) said:

queen rider, im sorry to have to tell you this.... no one knows until the attack is actually coming.

if i send all ranged on 1 flank in an attack on you, but used tons of mantlets... then even if you used all range troops and tools, your power for ranged troops would be 0% because i just used to many mantlets. so if you have melee troops that work with 100%, or range troops that have 0% power, melee is better

and if i sent melee troops at you and used a strong enough commander and war horns or wall tools, and you had fairly strong range defenders but weak melee ones, then i would advise you put up range troops and tools instead

really EVERY attack depends on the tools, the commander/castellan, and a little bit of guess work. we cant see what tools are on what wave when an attack comes, so we just use our best guess as to how they did it, and prep from there

there is 1 defense that i trust 99% of the time. vet swordsmen with lime bombs. vet swords are a melee troop, but have a high range AND melee defense. and because they are a melee troop, they can not have their power lowered by enemy troops. if you do not have access to lime bombs constantly, use wall tools and moat tools and gate tools. i have only seen vet sword defense be beat 1 or 2 times.

That must be innacurate,

Lets just assume this:

Defender has full level 5 towers. 320 basic defenders.

Attacker is (naturally) going all ranged against vet swords (using melees against vet swords is suicide)

76x 3.22 bonus 94 lime powder bombs + 90% melee cast) = 245

They have a normal 100-0-0 def

They have a 10% defense bonus on the wall from gems.

They have a 20% troops on flanks from gems/heroes

Enemy naturally using ruby tools.

320x1.2= 384

Enemy using moat tools and breaching towers and god commander = no moat/wall bonuses.

That means we have 384x245=94080

Now, lets just say the enemys using KG's, and they have 90% ranged bonus and 10% bonus against the wall for 100% bonus total = 228 attack per troop.

Only 388 would be recquired to beat the wall.

In all likelihood, an atttacker would also have some Travelling Crossbowmen/ Horrors/ other bonus troop.

They also could easily have better gems.

And its also VERY UNLIKELY THAT SOMEONE WOULD HAVE 16 LIME POWDER BOMBS.

over all, even though it's a strong defense, it CAN be beat.

Especially since:

1). Taking all 3 flanks would grant the range troops 278 attack in the keep.
2). The swordsmen would only have 144 defense in the keep.

[4164733] furture (US1) [None] :: Oct. 19, 2015, 3:35 a.m.

MightyHawklord (GB1) said:

furture (US1) said:

..............there is 1 defense that i trust 99% of the time. vet swordsmen with lime bombs. vet swords are a melee troop, but have a high range AND melee defense. and because they are a melee troop, they can not have their power lowered by enemy troops. if you do not have access to lime bombs constantly, use wall tools and moat tools and gate tools. i have only seen vet sword defense be beat 1 or 2 times.

problem with this is any defenders that are sent in support will replace the vet swordsmen on the wall,

only the strongest go on the wall, and vet swords are weaker than vet spearmen,
so the vet spearmen would replace the vet swords if 100% melee

most ranged defenders would also replace the vet swords if going 100% ranged

if a mixed melee/ranged support is sent then the same would happen

even if you have stronger melee defenders of your own then they replace the vet swords

well in my old alliance when we used this, we were very clear. only send range or vet sword D, so as not to displace the vetswords. and if you want the vetswords on the wall, just set it to 100% melee instead. idk why you even brought that point up.

Petyr Baelish (IN1) said:

furture (US1) said:

queen rider, im sorry to have to tell you this.... no one knows until the attack is actually coming.

if i send all ranged on 1 flank in an attack on you, but used tons of mantlets... then even if you used all range troops and tools, your power for ranged troops would be 0% because i just used to many mantlets. so if you have melee troops that work with 100%, or range troops that have 0% power, melee is better

and if i sent melee troops at you and used a strong enough commander and war horns or wall tools, and you had fairly strong range defenders but weak melee ones, then i would advise you put up range troops and tools instead

really EVERY attack depends on the tools, the commander/castellan, and a little bit of guess work. we cant see what tools are on what wave when an attack comes, so we just use our best guess as to how they did it, and prep from there

there is 1 defense that i trust 99% of the time. vet swordsmen with lime bombs. vet swords are a melee troop, but have a high range AND melee defense. and because they are a melee troop, they can not have their power lowered by enemy troops. if you do not have access to lime bombs constantly, use wall tools and moat tools and gate tools. i have only seen vet sword defense be beat 1 or 2 times.

That must be innacurate,

Lets just assume this:

Defender has full level 5 towers. 320 basic defenders.

Attacker is (naturally) going all ranged against vet swords (using melees against vet swords is suicide)

76x 3.22 bonus 94 lime powder bombs + 90% melee cast) = 245

They have a normal 100-0-0 def

They have a 10% defense bonus on the wall from gems.

They have a 20% troops on flanks from gems/heroes

Enemy naturally using ruby tools.

320x1.2= 384

Enemy using moat tools and breaching towers and god commander = no moat/wall bonuses.

That means we have 384x245=94080

Now, lets just say the enemys using KG's, and they have 90% ranged bonus and 10% bonus against the wall for 100% bonus total = 228 attack per troop.

Only 388 would be recquired to beat the wall.

In all likelihood, an atttacker would also have some Travelling Crossbowmen/ Horrors/ other bonus troop.

They also could easily have better gems.

And its also VERY UNLIKELY THAT SOMEONE WOULD HAVE 16 LIME POWDER BOMBS.

over all, even though it's a strong defense, it CAN be beat.

Especially since:

1). Taking all 3 flanks would grant the range troops 278 attack in the keep.
2). The swordsmen would only have 144 defense in the keep.

you assumed way to much, and we did have contingencies in place for better defense if we wanted.

1- if they send all all ranged attack, unless they are complete and utter idiots, they sent some mantlets, meaning room for other tools goes down, meaning moat, wall, or lime bombs have a chance of being very effective. if they dont send mantlets, like i said above, we use range or vetswords only, no other melee, meaning we switch to 100% range, range tools, bam, E-Z win. and they need to send ALOT of mantlets to be effective, plus only 2 tool slots on the flank for attackers, meaning the moat, wall, range power, and limb bombs cant be canceled out. you can do it on separate flanks, but that means each flank is still vulnerable to the other 2 defenses.

2- its very easy to get lime bombs. i bought rubies on my last account, but never limb bombs. i earned them in events as prizes, especially when the nomads gave them out cheap way back when. (after nomad updates that got a lot harder, but.... still other ways to get them) maybe the average level 40 guy does not have 16 lime bombs, but if we are assuming level 5 towers, either they stole an OP, or are level 70, meaning they have had plenty of chances to earn limb bombs.

3- your assuming they get past all 3 walls. vet sword D is very strong, and great, and all that other stuff, but we didnt leave it up no matter what. we would always change it if there was a better way, we would not say "its gonna be close, lets hope for the best"

[4165608] MightyHawklord (GB1) [GB1] :: Oct. 19, 2015, 4:48 p.m.

furture (US1) said:

....idk why you even brought that point up.

maybe because the original poster is a level 34 with no access to vet swords,
no one in the alliance has access to them either,

vet swords are out of their league

[4165738] furture (US1) [None] :: Oct. 19, 2015, 6:13 p.m.

1- the point you brought up was that if they had a 100% range defense set up, then it replaces vet swords most of the time. i said just switch it to 100% melee. i said idk why you brought that up, you answered with something totally unrelated

2- they asked how they should defend, i answered what i thought was best for most scenarios. they didnt say whats best as long as it fits this, that, and so on criterion.

3- they can always level up and use this info later, or join an alliance that does have access to them and get that support.

[4171169] Petyr Baelish (IN1) [None] :: Oct. 23, 2015, 2:45 a.m.

furture (US1) said:

MightyHawklord (GB1) said:

furture (US1) said:

..............there is 1 defense that i trust 99% of the time. vet swordsmen with lime bombs. vet swords are a melee troop, but have a high range AND melee defense. and because they are a melee troop, they can not have their power lowered by enemy troops. if you do not have access to lime bombs constantly, use wall tools and moat tools and gate tools. i have only seen vet sword defense be beat 1 or 2 times.

problem with this is any defenders that are sent in support will replace the vet swordsmen on the wall,

only the strongest go on the wall, and vet swords are weaker than vet spearmen,
so the vet spearmen would replace the vet swords if 100% melee

most ranged defenders would also replace the vet swords if going 100% ranged

if a mixed melee/ranged support is sent then the same would happen

even if you have stronger melee defenders of your own then they replace the vet swords

well in my old alliance when we used this, we were very clear. only send range or vet sword D, so as not to displace the vetswords. and if you want the vetswords on the wall, just set it to 100% melee instead. idk why you even brought that point up.

Petyr Baelish (IN1) said:

furture (US1) said:

queen rider, im sorry to have to tell you this.... no one knows until the attack is actually coming.

if i send all ranged on 1 flank in an attack on you, but used tons of mantlets... then even if you used all range troops and tools, your power for ranged troops would be 0% because i just used to many mantlets. so if you have melee troops that work with 100%, or range troops that have 0% power, melee is better

and if i sent melee troops at you and used a strong enough commander and war horns or wall tools, and you had fairly strong range defenders but weak melee ones, then i would advise you put up range troops and tools instead

really EVERY attack depends on the tools, the commander/castellan, and a little bit of guess work. we cant see what tools are on what wave when an attack comes, so we just use our best guess as to how they did it, and prep from there

there is 1 defense that i trust 99% of the time. vet swordsmen with lime bombs. vet swords are a melee troop, but have a high range AND melee defense. and because they are a melee troop, they can not have their power lowered by enemy troops. if you do not have access to lime bombs constantly, use wall tools and moat tools and gate tools. i have only seen vet sword defense be beat 1 or 2 times.

That must be innacurate,

Lets just assume this:

Defender has full level 5 towers. 320 basic defenders.

Attacker is (naturally) going all ranged against vet swords (using melees against vet swords is suicide)

76x 3.22 bonus 94 lime powder bombs + 90% melee cast) = 245

They have a normal 100-0-0 def

They have a 10% defense bonus on the wall from gems.

They have a 20% troops on flanks from gems/heroes

Enemy naturally using ruby tools.

320x1.2= 384

Enemy using moat tools and breaching towers and god commander = no moat/wall bonuses.

That means we have 384x245=94080

Now, lets just say the enemys using KG's, and they have 90% ranged bonus and 10% bonus against the wall for 100% bonus total = 228 attack per troop.

Only 388 would be recquired to beat the wall.

In all likelihood, an atttacker would also have some Travelling Crossbowmen/ Horrors/ other bonus troop.

They also could easily have better gems.

And its also VERY UNLIKELY THAT SOMEONE WOULD HAVE 16 LIME POWDER BOMBS.

over all, even though it's a strong defense, it CAN be beat.

Especially since:

1). Taking all 3 flanks would grant the range troops 278 attack in the keep.
2). The swordsmen would only have 144 defense in the keep.

you assumed way to much, and we did have contingencies in place for better defense if we wanted.

1- if they send all all ranged attack, unless they are complete and utter idiots, they sent some mantlets, meaning room for other tools goes down, meaning moat, wall, or lime bombs have a chance of being very effective. if they dont send mantlets, like i said above, we use range or vetswords only, no other melee, meaning we switch to 100% range, range tools, bam, E-Z win. and they need to send ALOT of mantlets to be effective, plus only 2 tool slots on the flank for attackers, meaning the moat, wall, range power, and limb bombs cant be canceled out. you can do it on separate flanks, but that means each flank is still vulnerable to the other 2 defenses.

2- its very easy to get lime bombs. i bought rubies on my last account, but never limb bombs. i earned them in events as prizes, especially when the nomads gave them out cheap way back when. (after nomad updates that got a lot harder, but.... still other ways to get them) maybe the average level 40 guy does not have 16 lime bombs, but if we are assuming level 5 towers, either they stole an OP, or are level 70, meaning they have had plenty of chances to earn limb bombs.

3- your assuming they get past all 3 walls. vet sword D is very strong, and great, and all that other stuff, but we didnt leave it up no matter what. we would always change it if there was a better way, we would not say "its gonna be close, lets hope for the best"

Of course.

Another problem with vet swords- you can't fit a lot of them into a keep, eating 6 without bakeries and all...

and you can't always rely on support.

[4171172] furture (US1) [None] :: Oct. 23, 2015, 3:01 a.m.

Petyr Baelish (IN1) said:

Of course.

Another problem with vet swords- you can't fit a lot of them into a keep, eating 6 without bakeries and all...

and you can't always rely on support.

in any strong alliance with a bunch of active people, your more likely then not to be in range of support, and be able to hold a fair number. without a bakery, you can hold roughly 800 troops to an OP, assuming its a food op, and that you have high deco and all that, with farmhouses max level. using 6 food troops, that is about 600 troops to an OP, plenty of vet swords right there.

[4171210] vampire empire (GB1) [None] :: Oct. 23, 2015, 4:34 a.m.

furture (US1) said:

queen rider, im sorry to have to tell you this.... no one knows until the attack is actually coming.

if i send all ranged on 1 flank in an attack on you, but used tons of mantlets... then even if you used all range troops and tools, your power for ranged troops would be 0% because i just used to many mantlets. so if you have melee troops that work with 100%, or range troops that have 0% power, melee is better

and if i sent melee troops at you and used a strong enough commander and war horns or wall tools, and you had fairly strong range defenders but weak melee ones, then i would advise you put up range troops and tools instead

really EVERY attack depends on the tools, the commander/castellan, and a little bit of guess work. we cant see what tools are on what wave when an attack comes, so we just use our best guess as to how they did it, and prep from there

there is 1 defense that i trust 99% of the time. vet swordsmen with lime bombs. vet swords are a melee troop, but have a high range AND melee defense. and because they are a melee troop, they can not have their power lowered by enemy troops. if you do not have access to lime bombs constantly, use wall tools and moat tools and gate tools. i have only seen vet sword defense be beat 1 or 2 times.

experience helps...learn it through the hard way...