Forum: empire-en
Board: [589] Strategy & Tactics Discussion
Topic: [324401] Questions About Battles
[-324401]
hellogg (US1) [None]
:: Dec. 3, 2016, 7:49 a.m.
1. What does gate, wall, moat protection bonus each do in a battle?
2. If the attacker's tools weren't used on the wall, will it be used in the courtyard? If 20x range defense reduction tools weren't used on the wall will them be used to reduce range defenders in the courtyard?
2. If the attacker's tools weren't used on the wall, will it be used in the courtyard? If 20x range defense reduction tools weren't used on the wall will them be used to reduce range defenders in the courtyard?
[4625972]
ShadowOfEvil (GB1) [None]
:: Dec. 3, 2016, 11:25 a.m.
1.They give a combat bonus on the side they're on e.g +100% wall in middle means that troops in the middle get an extra 100% combat strength
2. No, if you win the battle then you keep any unused tools. If you lose...well nobody knows where they disappear to but with the exception of glory bonus tools, no tools apply to the courtyard
2. No, if you win the battle then you keep any unused tools. If you lose...well nobody knows where they disappear to but with the exception of glory bonus tools, no tools apply to the courtyard
[4625978]
Batten (GB1) [GB1]
:: Dec. 3, 2016, 11:34 a.m.
1. The simple answer is that the wall, the gate and the moat are the basic defensive features of your castle. You can place a preset agreed amount of troops on the walls in three areas right flank, left flank and centre to defend the walls on the flanks and the gate and wall in the centre. Troops are either ranged - using missiles at a distance - or melee - using hand to hand combat weapons and you can adjust the balance between melee and ranged troops on each flank and in the centre. Defensive tools are used to strengthen your gate, moat and walls and there are also some keep tools - dummy soldiers - which make you look like you have more troops than you do when spied.
The aim of the attacker is to breach your walls and get into the courtyard with as many troops as possible. To do this they need to reduce two of your stats -moat and wall, moat or wall or gate - to zero or less. So wall, moat and gate have a defensive score and the attacker tries to using attack tools, commander bonuses and hall of legend bonuses - post level 70 to reduce your score to zero. Your castellan equipment, gems, looks and hall of legend bonuses can help you up your defensive bonuses. You also have a score for the relative strength of your troops again the number of troops you can put on each bit of your wall can be effected by castellan equipment and gems and hall of legends bonuses and now building upgrades from the construction yard. The combat strength of your troops can I think either apply to the fight on the walls and in the courtyard or just in the courtyard. Whatever of you troops get over the wall congregate as one force in the courtyard so the more you get over the wall the better chance you have. To be successful if you face ranged troops you want to use wooden shields / mantlets / siege walls to reduce their ranged troop score below zero which means their arrows bounce of your shield wall and your troops are safe. Alternatively attacking the attackers with your defenders if you can get your ranged score above the score they have with wooden shields / mantlets / siege walls it makes a huge difference as you mow the attacking troops down before they even reach the wall.
Essentially you are looking at:
1. Quality of troops - stronger the troops the stronger the defence or attack
2. Quantity of troops - if you have more troops then you have a better chance of winning if the troops are of the same quality, if one side has much stronger troops but less troops they still have a better chance of winning
3. Quality of attackers commander - gems, equipment, looks
4. Quality of your castellan - gems, equipment, looks
5. Development of your castle - what level wall, gate, moat, towers
6. Hall of Legend - bonuses
7. Construction yard - buildlng bonuses (increase troop numbers on wall for example)
8. Tools - better the tools equipped in attack or defence the better the bonus to help you attack or defend
2. Tools have no effect to my knowledge in the courtyard. Bonuses such as increase courtyard strength do and that is what causes real problems for defensive players at present. The values for courtyard strength were introduced to try an offset an earlier defensive advantage which meant attacking players could clear the wall but because they had less troops than supported or self supported castles at top end they always had less numbers in the courtyard and consequently largely lost to moderately good defensive players. Because there aren't as many defensive options and with the instant superiority of bought offensive troops, the disparity in hall of legends levels and the problems presented by late detect increases and the speed of attacks compared to speed of support it is very difficult for developing players at all levels to defend attacks from players of a higher level hitting down. This wasn't the case previously. This hopefully is one of the things that the road map suggests will be looked at.
With true PVP what you tended to find was players tested themselves against each other at roughly the same level, so you made one hit then the opponent came back with one hit and other didn't get involved. Now you have a player with multiple accounts send myriad of hits to test you which allows them to get a lot more information about your castles and defensive approaches more quickly. They will plant a low level account in your alliance to check when you are on and off watch your support times for FI, who supports, how much they send etc. True PVP players didn't do that they back themselves with the knowledge they got from their spies and they didn't mind losing they recognised it was part of the learning process. Proper PVP players also tended not to be the looters or bandits they were generally sat a bit below and wouldn't attack all the time and generally if you defended well they send you a message and you could chat about tactics approach and learn from each other. Real PVP players were generally known and respected. There is a distinction between wanting to be able to fight and wanting to win at all costs. Wanting to win at all costs isn't PVP, PVP is having a roughly equal set up or being at a disadvantage and having the skill to win. I think maybe that got forgotten somewhere in the arms race we've had over the last few years. I like PVP, I don't like win at all costs.
The aim of the attacker is to breach your walls and get into the courtyard with as many troops as possible. To do this they need to reduce two of your stats -moat and wall, moat or wall or gate - to zero or less. So wall, moat and gate have a defensive score and the attacker tries to using attack tools, commander bonuses and hall of legend bonuses - post level 70 to reduce your score to zero. Your castellan equipment, gems, looks and hall of legend bonuses can help you up your defensive bonuses. You also have a score for the relative strength of your troops again the number of troops you can put on each bit of your wall can be effected by castellan equipment and gems and hall of legends bonuses and now building upgrades from the construction yard. The combat strength of your troops can I think either apply to the fight on the walls and in the courtyard or just in the courtyard. Whatever of you troops get over the wall congregate as one force in the courtyard so the more you get over the wall the better chance you have. To be successful if you face ranged troops you want to use wooden shields / mantlets / siege walls to reduce their ranged troop score below zero which means their arrows bounce of your shield wall and your troops are safe. Alternatively attacking the attackers with your defenders if you can get your ranged score above the score they have with wooden shields / mantlets / siege walls it makes a huge difference as you mow the attacking troops down before they even reach the wall.
Essentially you are looking at:
1. Quality of troops - stronger the troops the stronger the defence or attack
2. Quantity of troops - if you have more troops then you have a better chance of winning if the troops are of the same quality, if one side has much stronger troops but less troops they still have a better chance of winning
3. Quality of attackers commander - gems, equipment, looks
4. Quality of your castellan - gems, equipment, looks
5. Development of your castle - what level wall, gate, moat, towers
6. Hall of Legend - bonuses
7. Construction yard - buildlng bonuses (increase troop numbers on wall for example)
8. Tools - better the tools equipped in attack or defence the better the bonus to help you attack or defend
2. Tools have no effect to my knowledge in the courtyard. Bonuses such as increase courtyard strength do and that is what causes real problems for defensive players at present. The values for courtyard strength were introduced to try an offset an earlier defensive advantage which meant attacking players could clear the wall but because they had less troops than supported or self supported castles at top end they always had less numbers in the courtyard and consequently largely lost to moderately good defensive players. Because there aren't as many defensive options and with the instant superiority of bought offensive troops, the disparity in hall of legends levels and the problems presented by late detect increases and the speed of attacks compared to speed of support it is very difficult for developing players at all levels to defend attacks from players of a higher level hitting down. This wasn't the case previously. This hopefully is one of the things that the road map suggests will be looked at.
With true PVP what you tended to find was players tested themselves against each other at roughly the same level, so you made one hit then the opponent came back with one hit and other didn't get involved. Now you have a player with multiple accounts send myriad of hits to test you which allows them to get a lot more information about your castles and defensive approaches more quickly. They will plant a low level account in your alliance to check when you are on and off watch your support times for FI, who supports, how much they send etc. True PVP players didn't do that they back themselves with the knowledge they got from their spies and they didn't mind losing they recognised it was part of the learning process. Proper PVP players also tended not to be the looters or bandits they were generally sat a bit below and wouldn't attack all the time and generally if you defended well they send you a message and you could chat about tactics approach and learn from each other. Real PVP players were generally known and respected. There is a distinction between wanting to be able to fight and wanting to win at all costs. Wanting to win at all costs isn't PVP, PVP is having a roughly equal set up or being at a disadvantage and having the skill to win. I think maybe that got forgotten somewhere in the arms race we've had over the last few years. I like PVP, I don't like win at all costs.
[4626360]
benjames (AU1) [AU1]
:: Dec. 3, 2016, 10:31 p.m.
So for range troops... they might have a 250% range bonus from tools, then you add the wall/gate/moat to that to give, for example 600% range bonus?.. but that wouldn't work because if someone uses shields that take away 250% range bonus, the range has no defense stats.ShadowOfEvil (ASIA1) said:1.They give a combat bonus on the side they're on e.g +100% wall in middle means that troops in the middle get an extra 100% combat strength
2. No, if you win the battle then you keep any unused tools. If you lose...well nobody knows where they disappear to but with the exception of glory bonus tools, no tools apply to the courtyard
Does it add up the defense of the troop first, then add the combat strength? so say 150 defense for a range troop, add 250% bonus. is 375 defense... then say you have 100% wall, gate and moat... thats 300% combat strength, so 1,125 defense... when range bonus is reduced to say 50%, 150 defense becomes 75, and then 300% combat strength is 225 defense.??
[4626503]
ShadowOfEvil (GB1) [None]
:: Dec. 4, 2016, 6:30 a.m.
No idea for the second but for the first, ranged strength first e.g if you have reduced the ranged strength to 0% then the ranged strength is 0, zero times 150% is still zero.benjames (AU1) said:So for range troops... they might have a 250% range bonus from tools, then you add the wall/gate/moat to that to give, for example 600% range bonus?.. but that wouldn't work because if someone uses shields that take away 250% range bonus, the range has no defense stats.ShadowOfEvil (ASIA1) said:1.They give a combat bonus on the side they're on e.g +100% wall in middle means that troops in the middle get an extra 100% combat strength
2. No, if you win the battle then you keep any unused tools. If you lose...well nobody knows where they disappear to but with the exception of glory bonus tools, no tools apply to the courtyard
Does it add up the defense of the troop first, then add the combat strength? so say 150 defense for a range troop, add 250% bonus. is 375 defense... then say you have 100% wall, gate and moat... thats 300% combat strength, so 1,125 defense... when range bonus is reduced to say 50%, 150 defense becomes 75, and then 300% combat strength is 225 defense.??
[4626505]
benjames (AU1) [AU1]
:: Dec. 4, 2016, 6:37 a.m.
Yes, as i thought. So then it must work like the second way i thought?ShadowOfEvil (ASIA1) said:No idea for the second but for the first, ranged strength first e.g if you have reduced the ranged strength to 0% then the ranged strength is 0, zero times 150% is still zero.benjames (AU1) said:So for range troops... they might have a 250% range bonus from tools, then you add the wall/gate/moat to that to give, for example 600% range bonus?.. but that wouldn't work because if someone uses shields that take away 250% range bonus, the range has no defense stats.ShadowOfEvil (ASIA1) said:1.They give a combat bonus on the side they're on e.g +100% wall in middle means that troops in the middle get an extra 100% combat strength
2. No, if you win the battle then you keep any unused tools. If you lose...well nobody knows where they disappear to but with the exception of glory bonus tools, no tools apply to the courtyard
Does it add up the defense of the troop first, then add the combat strength? so say 150 defense for a range troop, add 250% bonus. is 375 defense... then say you have 100% wall, gate and moat... thats 300% combat strength, so 1,125 defense... when range bonus is reduced to say 50%, 150 defense becomes 75, and then 300% combat strength is 225 defense.??
[4626520]
ShadowOfEvil (GB1) [None]
:: Dec. 4, 2016, 7:43 a.m.
Yeah I think sobenjames (AU1) said:Yes, as i thought. So then it must work like the second way i thought?ShadowOfEvil (ASIA1) said:No idea for the second but for the first, ranged strength first e.g if you have reduced the ranged strength to 0% then the ranged strength is 0, zero times 150% is still zero.benjames (AU1) said:So for range troops... they might have a 250% range bonus from tools, then you add the wall/gate/moat to that to give, for example 600% range bonus?.. but that wouldn't work because if someone uses shields that take away 250% range bonus, the range has no defense stats.ShadowOfEvil (ASIA1) said:1.They give a combat bonus on the side they're on e.g +100% wall in middle means that troops in the middle get an extra 100% combat strength
2. No, if you win the battle then you keep any unused tools. If you lose...well nobody knows where they disappear to but with the exception of glory bonus tools, no tools apply to the courtyard
Does it add up the defense of the troop first, then add the combat strength? so say 150 defense for a range troop, add 250% bonus. is 375 defense... then say you have 100% wall, gate and moat... thats 300% combat strength, so 1,125 defense... when range bonus is reduced to say 50%, 150 defense becomes 75, and then 300% combat strength is 225 defense.??
[4626584]
Musashi (ASIA1) [None]
:: Dec. 4, 2016, 10:27 a.m.
No-idea sorry. I'm a newbie to this game.