Forum: empire-en

Board: [589] Strategy & Tactics Discussion

Topic: [373150] Confused on Defense/makes no sense

[-373150] HeavyJeff9 (US1) [US1] :: April 23, 2020, 7:26 a.m.

i am not sure if it recently changed or not, i was on a break for about 6 weeks. I curious and hoping someone can help.
Was looking at recruiting coin D and also after took look at for example, flamer bearer. What I am confused about is the side they fall on,, we all know that most attacks that range is used much more and on first wave. Now as far as i have always known the melee troops were supposed to be the ones one would use in defense on front line say the wall,,,, however, i was just looking and see that say the sentinel with the axe states ideal against melee attackers, and the troops with the bow states ideal against range attackers???  doesn't that seem backwards??  it is same with vet D for example also.  When u set wall settings to melee, it places vet flamebeaers first on wall, but does this the actually mean that i am putting up the opposite against incoming attacks with range attackers on first wave? should i be using range 100% on wall settings then, and the crossbowmen being there instead, as according to troop description, they are 'ideal against range attackers'  have i been getin it wrong all this time?  when i attack a FC and it has troops with axes, i have always placed range troops against that, does this mean that actually the melee troops should be used?  am more concerned about the defense,, from what am seeing/reading on screen description, would lead me to think that actually i should have crossbowmen as frontline as it states 'ideal against ranged attakers'???

[5114624] Saif Ur Rahman (INT2) [INT2] :: April 23, 2020, 8:18 a.m.

No you should use 70/30 melee/ranged. If you put 100% ranged then he can wipe out all your troops with shields and, believe it or not, a single troop. You can use lime powder bombs or quicklime bombs to increase your melee def. Also, moat tools can assist your cause.

[5124441] aAlexe (US1) [US1] :: May 26, 2020, 12:39 p.m.

Saif Ur Rahman (INT2) said:

No you should use 70/30 melee/ranged. If you put 100% ranged then he can wipe out all your troops with shields and, believe it or not, a single troop. You can use lime powder bombs or quicklime bombs to increase your melee def. Also, moat tools can assist your cause.

70/30 is awful. They can eliminate 30% of your troops with a few mantlets, which is why 100 melee / 0 ranged is the best. There is no way to eliminate melee strength.

[5124499] aerial (INT3) [INT3] :: May 26, 2020, 5:41 p.m.

always remember that melee are the strongest on the walls , thats why against good attacks we put 100% melee and full lim bombs to hold the walls 
defending with full ranged is really a bad idea 

[5124561] Dudester (INT1) [INT1] :: May 27, 2020, 9:33 a.m.

aAlexe (US1) said:

Saif Ur Rahman (INT2) said:

No you should use 70/30 melee/ranged. If you put 100% ranged then he can wipe out all your troops with shields and, believe it or not, a single troop. You can use lime powder bombs or quicklime bombs to increase your melee def. Also, moat tools can assist your cause.

70/30 is awful. They can eliminate 30% of your troops with a few mantlets, which is why 100 melee / 0 ranged is the best. There is no way to eliminate melee strength.

Thats not true. Again it depends on the attack set up. If they send 1 wave of shields and 5 waves of wall/moat the all bombs 100% melee will fail.

[5124565] aAlexe (US1) [US1] :: May 27, 2020, 9:41 a.m.

Dudester (INT1) said:

aAlexe (US1) said:

Saif Ur Rahman (INT2) said:

No you should use 70/30 melee/ranged. If you put 100% ranged then he can wipe out all your troops with shields and, believe it or not, a single troop. You can use lime powder bombs or quicklime bombs to increase your melee def. Also, moat tools can assist your cause.

70/30 is awful. They can eliminate 30% of your troops with a few mantlets, which is why 100 melee / 0 ranged is the best. There is no way to eliminate melee strength.

Thats not true. Again it depends on the attack set up. If they send 1 wave of shields and 5 waves of wall/moat the all bombs 100% melee will fail.

of course, but this is just for the offline setup. you can change your setup to crush incomings easy

[5124621] Duplex (INT1) [INT1] :: May 27, 2020, 2:49 p.m.

i use 100 range 0 melee when i am online. I also put all my troops in one flank

( NOTE: WHEN I AM ONLINE) therefor if an attack is sended to me i just wait 10 minutes ( so he cannot retreat) at most of the chances 99% he will attack full shields so when i am online I put it right 100 % melee and 0 % range put every possible wall tool i have so his shields go in vain and hist first wave will die in wall

when i am offline or afk i put 100 % melee it is good for me...

[5124625] photo23 (US1) [US1] :: May 27, 2020, 3:18 p.m.

When offline, you should at least have even a 10 to 15% range on wall so that they at least will send shields, and leave no room for moat tools, then the moat tools will give a bonus to both the melee and range at least for the first wave. I have found this to be effective. I would love to hear the argument against this for my own sake, to stronger my defense if i am wrong.

[5124636] bernhardt (US1) [US1] :: May 27, 2020, 4:41 p.m.

@HeavyJeff9 (US1)  The GGE descriptions are accurate if no tools are used on either side and neither side uses a com/cast.  Other than that specific case, the GGE descriptions are pointless.  Your previous understanding is far closer to reality and the rest is just fine tuning....

[5127825] bucketofsquid (US1) [US1] :: June 8, 2020, 2:43 p.m.

The problem with any defense setup is that eventually someone will find a way around it.  That is why many people fire castellan (fire damage reduction).

Alternatively you can stay on and playing 24 hours a day until you die from dehydration or lack of sleep.  Not what I would call a good idea.  Troops can be replaced and buildings can be repaired or replaced.

[5182766] yaronm (INT1) [INT1] :: March 27, 2021, 6:20 p.m.

Hi.
Its simple: when you are using range tools in your attack, you can totally negate the range soldiers on wall.
With this, practically, there will be only melee left (you can not negate them) which are weaker in range defendse.
This is the reason to attack with range.
btw, on "GGE helper" website there is an attack guide that explains all attack options.
yaron

[5182780] Poseidon [Moderator] :: March 27, 2021, 8:56 p.m.

Hello there @yaronm (INT1)

Won't actually give you any warning points but I can't have you promote your or any one else's website on here.

Best regards,

poseidon

[5182808] yaronm (INT1) [INT1] :: March 28, 2021, 10:31 a.m.

Hello Poseidon,

Fully understood your point. I've removed that signature

have a nice day.

[5185340] gypsydog78 (WORLD1) [None] :: April 17, 2021, 7:49 p.m.

[5185343] Poseidon [Moderator] :: April 17, 2021, 7:53 p.m.

This theory holds some truth but it's not the be all end all.
There are more effective ways of defending attacks.

And to make your 75/25 a bit more clear. If you wall is setup like that and the attacker kills 100 troops he will have killed 75 melee and 25 ranged troops. 

Then this, a lot of people use moat tools in their shield wave and thus your moat tools won't be saving you.

[5185369] Wasso (INT3) [INT3] :: April 18, 2021, 1:41 a.m.

gypsydog78 (WORLD1) said:

the way the game mechanics work when defending is that if the troop ratio on the wall is 51% rangers or higher...u will lose one ranger for one melee defender at ratio of 1 to 1..  ( one ranger and one melee defender)

now if you were to go with a ratio of 75melee / 25 ranger on the wall the attacker will have to kill 3 melee defenders for a single ranger defender or a ratio of 3 to 1....

this means that in the waves that have enough shields to negate the entire range def bonuses causing the rangers to be completely taken out of the fight so to speak due to the shields completely negating all range attack bonuses( in the waves enough shields are used )...but the melee troops will carry the weight of the fight during those waves..

I would suggest using 75melee/25 rangers with all your best range tools on the wall...nothing but range tools... melee units will still have  the base wall and moat bonus to help them during the shield wave(s)....so i suggest castellan having high wall and moat bonus for those waves... NEVER GO 100% RANGERS ON YOUR WALL....u can go 100% rangers ratio only when an incoming attack shows ZERO SHIELDS in the incoming attack....zero

Questions?

Try using 90% Melee and 10% Range with 75% Melee bonus and 25% Range bonus tools.  

Use your set up and the above on some controlled Collector Attacks from a friend.

See what results you prefer..........

[5185378] gypsydog78 (WORLD1) [None] :: April 18, 2021, 6:35 a.m.

Poseidon X Angel said:

This theory holds some truth but it's not the be all end all.
There are more effective ways of defending attacks.

And to make your 75/25 a bit more clear. If you wall is setup like that and the attacker kills 100 troops he will have killed 75 melee and 25 ranged troops. 

Then this, a lot of people use moat tools in their shield wave and thus your moat tools won't be saving you.

my main point is that just because u send shields in a wave doesn't mean all your range defenders will die on that wave 75/25 ratio.....meaning the waves with the shields~ the rangers have there attack bonuses lowered to zero (for that wave) therefore the rangers will just attack but hit all zeros...leaving the melee troops to do all the work...but all the rangers will not all be killed on that single wave(which would most likely breaking the wall) due to the 3 melee defenders have to be killed per a single ranger... take a look at  a battle report and click through each wave on the report looking at the death ratio of melee to range in each wave....take notice that the flank usually breaks in the wave that the defenders "runs out of range defenders" and/or the very next wave where only melee troops remain..and taking heavy loses that wave.....u can try any ratio say ~ 80/20 or 90/10 or 70/30 etc etc..... any wall can be broke giving the attack has enough men(or waves) in it to eventually wear down the wall until it breaks....    personally, I feel that just holding a single wall against 4 or more attack waves is a success or a win... the defender will always have the advantage over the attacker because the defender can always win in the courtyard if they have enough defenders regardless of the courtyard bonus.... btw keep in mind that the melee defenders cant have there def bonus (there stats) lowered like the rangers can....that is why 100% melee ratio with all machs can get the job done sometimes... i suggest only going 100% melee ratio only if the  attack is made up of only melee attack units....

[5192342] daisybee (US1) [US1] :: June 1, 2021, 1:35 a.m.

I would like to learn more about the "fire castellan"...I use relic castellans now and do not see anything in their description on fire damage protection.  The gems in the relic's are the same way, the descriptions do not show any fire damage protection.  Am I reading something wrong?  What do I look for to build a fire castellan?  

[5192347] Wasso (INT3) [INT3] :: June 1, 2021, 3:44 a.m.

daisybee (US1) said:

I would like to learn more about the "fire castellan"...I use relic castellans now and do not see anything in their description on fire damage protection.  The gems in the relic's are the same way, the descriptions do not show any fire damage protection.  Am I reading something wrong?  What do I look for to build a fire castellan?  

You have to build it from the old Casts and equipment/gems......

[5192348] bucketofsquid (US1) [US1] :: June 1, 2021, 4:02 a.m.

To make a fire castellan you need to collect regular equipment.  Relic equipment is very powerful but does nothing to reduce fire damage.  Orange is the best, then purple and green does some but not much.  Look for % fire damage reduction in the benefit descriptions.  Some % values will be high and some will be low.  Some items will have multiple reduction benefits.  It is good to pair them with loot reduction benefits too.  Hitting towers from each of the 4 map zones is how I get mine.  Castellans can have the fire damage reduction too.

I don't remember the total cap on fire damage reduction but when I have one at or over the limit, it takes a massive, many wave attack to do damage to my buildings.

Just remember to move your troops out or you will take terrible losses.  You will also lose a lot of resources if there are any there.