Forum: empire-en
Board: [818] General Discussion
Topic: [388626] Generals skills
[5256233]
JPS Kills (GB1) [GB1]
:: March 20, 2023, 8:49 p.m.
I have seen your spreadsheets with all those complex formulas so, I don't tihnk your mathematics has ever been questioned. Very few people, unless they are real geeks in the gaming world, understand the real difference between additive and multiplicative, myself included.Poseidon said:I'm just as qualified ;-)JPS Kills (GB1) said:I think it is best to add Herveus and fujiwara into this conversation as they will say that it isn't simple maths.Poseidon said:It's not basic math.SUPER-MAC (GB1) said:you cannot help the blind, poisden clearly is wrong, and you cannot recruit fast enough to replace, your missing the point, some people are paying money in this game, and getting less power for it, if you payed to upgrade a turbo in your car and got less power, would you say oh well lets enjoy it, if you payed for any upgrade you expect and upgrade. i don need a thred or some bulcrap stats from a moderator when its pretty basic maths involved here, basic maths, and ye we all want to enjoy the game, but when every step it feels like a con or a money grab it makes it difficult, getting aff tikets, for stronger coms, with stats that are cleary not doing anything, its basic maths.JPS Kills (GB1) said:As Poseidon clearly mentioned in this thread, there is a clear difference between multiplicative and additive bonus.SUPER-MAC (GB1) said:Hi all, bit of a maths mind may be needed for this post, this is about the Generals skills.
I had 10% combat strength every 2 waves and the minus 10% power from ranged defenders every 3 waves, this would sujest a total of around 25% every 3 waves, I have used my only reset token and changed this to all troops in the final battle for an extra 1050 troops than I had before with the 450 troops, so I now have 1500 troops in the final battle 1050 more than before, anyway, in this time I also got the 12% power on all troops in the hall of legends, this would make 36% total extra over the 3 waves, so to go from 25% every 3 waves to 36% every 3 waves im actually 11% better off in simple math, with an extra 1050 troops in the final battle, BUT for some strange reason on the same difficulty hard pluss, against the same troop ratio on the wall ie the same amount of hammermen and ranged defence, even less in some cases, I am loosing more troops than I did before, I am now being asked for real money to reset my general, so is this faulse advertising when real money is involved we have to be carefull how we approach purchases to avoid faulse advertising, this may sound petty, but when we are being asked for real money for the appearence of an improvement but getting less then we have a real issue here,
Mathematically there is something wrong, 25% compared to 36% and more troops I should be losing less troops not more, not to mention that the extra 12% is on all troops compared to reducing 10% from ranged, Im actually slightly more than 11% better off but thats a bit more in depth maths the true figure is more like 12.7% better off,, because Im gaining 12% on all troops melee and ranged, agaisnt weaker ranged troops and only half average will be affected by the 10% reduction as it is only on ranged defenders, so why am I now losing more troops, not forgetting I have an extra 1050 troops aswell. and also 900 troops extra from the ice barracks i got in the event shop,
In laymens terms, I swapped 25% for 36% and an extra 1950 extra troops in the final battle but I am losing more troops than I normaly would.
Answer me that please.
I suggest you read this thread as it is used quite often not only in GGE but other games too:
https://hypixel.net/threads/what-is-the-difference-between-multiplicative-and-additive-percentages-in-calculations.4307241/
Edit:
Furtter to that, over-analyising something like this just takes the fun out of the game as I see it. Just try and enjoy empire for the time it has got left. When I hit a nice glory castle, the number of losses are irrelevant because I know I can recruit more. Just enjoy the game mate.
[5256234]
Poseidon [Moderator]
:: March 20, 2023, 11:11 p.m.
To bring everyone up to speed. The game generally works like this.JPS Kills (GB1) said:I have seen your spreadsheets with all those complex formulas so, I don't tihnk your mathematics has ever been questioned. Very few people, unless they are real geeks in the gaming world, understand the real difference between additive and multiplicative, myself included.Poseidon said:I'm just as qualified ;-)JPS Kills (GB1) said:I think it is best to add Herveus and fujiwara into this conversation as they will say that it isn't simple maths.Poseidon said:It's not basic math.SUPER-MAC (GB1) said:you cannot help the blind, poisden clearly is wrong, and you cannot recruit fast enough to replace, your missing the point, some people are paying money in this game, and getting less power for it, if you payed to upgrade a turbo in your car and got less power, would you say oh well lets enjoy it, if you payed for any upgrade you expect and upgrade. i don need a thred or some bulcrap stats from a moderator when its pretty basic maths involved here, basic maths, and ye we all want to enjoy the game, but when every step it feels like a con or a money grab it makes it difficult, getting aff tikets, for stronger coms, with stats that are cleary not doing anything, its basic maths.JPS Kills (GB1) said:As Poseidon clearly mentioned in this thread, there is a clear difference between multiplicative and additive bonus.SUPER-MAC (GB1) said:Hi all, bit of a maths mind may be needed for this post, this is about the Generals skills.
I had 10% combat strength every 2 waves and the minus 10% power from ranged defenders every 3 waves, this would sujest a total of around 25% every 3 waves, I have used my only reset token and changed this to all troops in the final battle for an extra 1050 troops than I had before with the 450 troops, so I now have 1500 troops in the final battle 1050 more than before, anyway, in this time I also got the 12% power on all troops in the hall of legends, this would make 36% total extra over the 3 waves, so to go from 25% every 3 waves to 36% every 3 waves im actually 11% better off in simple math, with an extra 1050 troops in the final battle, BUT for some strange reason on the same difficulty hard pluss, against the same troop ratio on the wall ie the same amount of hammermen and ranged defence, even less in some cases, I am loosing more troops than I did before, I am now being asked for real money to reset my general, so is this faulse advertising when real money is involved we have to be carefull how we approach purchases to avoid faulse advertising, this may sound petty, but when we are being asked for real money for the appearence of an improvement but getting less then we have a real issue here,
Mathematically there is something wrong, 25% compared to 36% and more troops I should be losing less troops not more, not to mention that the extra 12% is on all troops compared to reducing 10% from ranged, Im actually slightly more than 11% better off but thats a bit more in depth maths the true figure is more like 12.7% better off,, because Im gaining 12% on all troops melee and ranged, agaisnt weaker ranged troops and only half average will be affected by the 10% reduction as it is only on ranged defenders, so why am I now losing more troops, not forgetting I have an extra 1050 troops aswell. and also 900 troops extra from the ice barracks i got in the event shop,
In laymens terms, I swapped 25% for 36% and an extra 1950 extra troops in the final battle but I am losing more troops than I normaly would.
Answer me that please.
I suggest you read this thread as it is used quite often not only in GGE but other games too:
https://hypixel.net/threads/what-is-the-difference-between-multiplicative-and-additive-percentages-in-calculations.4307241/
Edit:
Furtter to that, over-analyising something like this just takes the fun out of the game as I see it. Just try and enjoy empire for the time it has got left. When I hit a nice glory castle, the number of losses are irrelevant because I know I can recruit more. Just enjoy the game mate.
Lets take movement speed as an example, there are maybe 5 sources of extra movement speed. Lets say you start with none, your basic travel time is 600 seconds. You then add 80% speed to your commander and 80% from your hall of legends. This gives you a 160% speed increase. Getting another 100% elsewhere brings you to 260%. That's additive.
If it was multiplicative you would have 320% after adding 100% to 160%.
Players often expect multiplicative behavior when buying things like the +40% food flag. They will look at their current food production and multiply it by 1.4. +40% added in a multiplicative way. But in reality, the 40% is added onto a big stack of other bonusses. The effect still adds 40%, but you already had 800%, so the relative gain is smaller.
And then at last, as for why you can't assume much if anything, travel time, something that should be easy (distance divided by speed) looks like this in game:
Unitspeed, distance are easy. Totaldistance is the same as distance. Boostfactor is the alliance travelspeed boost. Horseboost comes from your horses (depends on the distance as well) and percetageboost is the sum of all other movement speed bonusses.
[5256281]
SUPER-MAC (GB1) [GB1]
:: March 24, 2023, 5:39 p.m.
if you have 10% power of all units every 2 waves and a 10% reduction in the ranged defence every 3 waves then that cannot be as powerfull as 12% combat strength to all troops every wave, the 10% reduction of ranged troops is only roughly about half the troops, and its every 3 waves, this is against 12% power on every wave, that alone should be more powerfull with less loses, but I have to also factor in that my general has 1050 more troops in the final battle, AND I have a 900 troops to the final battle from the winter barracks and also 4% extra range, I have gone from 10% combat power every 2 waves and a reduction of 10% on half the defence every 3 waves to having 12% more power on every wave, 4% ranged power extra and a wopping 1950 extra troops, how on earth can the math be that wrong, this isnt a small difference, and yet I am loosing more troops than normal, there is something not right here and it is not my math.
And im not a numbers game geek im just stating the obvious, that some people may be spending money to reset points, or winning items such as the 900 troops extra in the final battle, this is pretty basic maths, going from dodgy spread sheets isnt going to change anything, please read what i have written, are you now telling me that the 12% from the hall of legends isnt actually 12%, its a different kind of 12%, im not adding to bonuses, this is base value figures without look items and all the rest of it.
are you telling me then, that the 12% from the hall of legends is different in comparesent the the 10% a general gives, so is 10% on a general worth 50% in the hall of legends, this really is basic maths, is the % different in the hall of legends to the generals, if so can you not see a whopping big problem, there is no other kind of %, 12% is 12% regardless of if its from the hall of legends or if its from the generals, we are not talking about glory bonuses on top of flags, or monuments, or titles, this is about the basic % given in the hall of legend and the generals abilities
12% every wave for ever troops is more powerfull than 10% every 2 waves, and a 12% reduction on half the defece every 3 waves, theres no argument here, that alone is pretty basic, and then if we even add on the 1950 extra troops, but yet still getting more loses, its pretty obvious what is happening here, money grab for events to win the items, money grab for resetijng ponts, and a money grab for troops, when it is clear to anyone with half an ounce of common sense that i should be more powerfull not less, its blatently obvioous what is happening here. if you cant see it then i cant help you, and poisden i think just likes winding people up lol
And im not a numbers game geek im just stating the obvious, that some people may be spending money to reset points, or winning items such as the 900 troops extra in the final battle, this is pretty basic maths, going from dodgy spread sheets isnt going to change anything, please read what i have written, are you now telling me that the 12% from the hall of legends isnt actually 12%, its a different kind of 12%, im not adding to bonuses, this is base value figures without look items and all the rest of it.
are you telling me then, that the 12% from the hall of legends is different in comparesent the the 10% a general gives, so is 10% on a general worth 50% in the hall of legends, this really is basic maths, is the % different in the hall of legends to the generals, if so can you not see a whopping big problem, there is no other kind of %, 12% is 12% regardless of if its from the hall of legends or if its from the generals, we are not talking about glory bonuses on top of flags, or monuments, or titles, this is about the basic % given in the hall of legend and the generals abilities
12% every wave for ever troops is more powerfull than 10% every 2 waves, and a 12% reduction on half the defece every 3 waves, theres no argument here, that alone is pretty basic, and then if we even add on the 1950 extra troops, but yet still getting more loses, its pretty obvious what is happening here, money grab for events to win the items, money grab for resetijng ponts, and a money grab for troops, when it is clear to anyone with half an ounce of common sense that i should be more powerfull not less, its blatently obvioous what is happening here. if you cant see it then i cant help you, and poisden i think just likes winding people up lol