Goodgame Studios forum archives
Forum: empire-en
Board: [584] Players ask Players
Topic: [344269] entering general terms and conditions did not go well
[-344269] koos69 (NL1) [None] :: Nov. 28, 2017, 11:51 a.m.
Your provider can not only change the terms and conditions or the price of the
a subscription. He must first tell you exactly what he wants to change. He
You must let us know at least a month in advance.

What does the provider have to do if he wants to change the conditions?
Did the provider want to change the subscription? Then he must leave you
know at least a month in advance. The provider also has the following
obligations:

He must personally inform you about this change as much as possible. In front of
for example with a letter, e-mail or text message. Is he only introducing the
change in the newspaper? Then that is not enough.
Is the change detrimental for you? Then he must let you know that you can
cancel your subscription without additional costs.
He must let you know how you can cancel.

none of these conditions has been followed by goodgame.
I'm going to have my old conditions back after court
have a free choice and if I say no I get me
not how Goodgame did you could say nothing else like YES
You are deeply ashamed of my free choice
rules and laws for everyone to keep Goodgame

gr koos69
[4871524] ang1243 (GB1) [GB1] :: Nov. 28, 2017, 12:03 p.m.
Hey @koos69 (NL1)

What change in the Terms & Conditions (https://www.goodgamestudios.com/terms_en/#terms) are you talking about?

Cheers,

Angus
[4871611] koos69 (NL1) [None] :: Nov. 28, 2017, 4:57 p.m.
entering the New general terms and conditions 2014
Goodgame has given the rights of customers
here in the Netherlands rights have not been applied to the introduction of new conditions Goodgame

everything in the law has passed Goodgame. also I as a customer may have a free choice when saying so
also the right to say no to the new conditions

least a month in advance  ???

He must personally inform you about this change as much as possible. In front of
for example with a letter, e-mail or text message. Is he only introducing the
change in the newspaper? Then that is not enough.
Is the change detrimental for you? Then he must let you know that you can
cancel your subscription without additional costs.
He must let you know how you can cancel.      ???????

and at No say can get my back ???
my right and free choice did not comply with Goodgame.
luckily I live in the Netherlands can put it right at the court.

gr koos69



[4871689] Raggle Fock (US1) [None] :: Nov. 28, 2017, 7:40 p.m.
koos69 (NL1) said:
entering the New general terms and conditions 2014
Goodgame has given the rights of customers
here in the Netherlands rights have not been applied to the introduction of new conditions Goodgame

everything in the law has passed Goodgame. also I as a customer may have a free choice when saying so
also the right to say no to the new conditions

least a month in advance  ???

He must personally inform you about this change as much as possible. In front of
for example with a letter, e-mail or text message. Is he only introducing the
change in the newspaper? Then that is not enough.
Is the change detrimental for you? Then he must let you know that you can
cancel your subscription without additional costs.
He must let you know how you can cancel.      ???????

and at No say can get my back ???
my right and free choice did not comply with Goodgame.
luckily I live in the Netherlands can put it right at the court.

gr koos69



hard to know what exactly you are saying. Perhaps you can try to more clearly state your issue. 

I think what you are saying is that the last update to the T&C was in 2014, and since its now 2017 they haven't been updated in 3 years and GGS is supposed to keep people updated. If that is indeed the case that you are making, GGS is only responsible to inform of changes to T&C when T&C changes. Since there have been no changes to the T&C since 2014, this means that they have not been obligated to update us.

You do realize that "Conditions" does not mean game rules/features right? GGS is not legally required to provide updates concerning the game a month in advance.

If my answer is not addressing your concern, I suggest trying to be more clear as it is obvious that something is getting lost in translation.
[4871708] koos69 (NL1) [None] :: Nov. 28, 2017, 8:29 p.m.
here in the Netherlands you can not change any conditions / rules

1 month in advance to indicate what they are going to change
Practical advice from the government about your rights as a consumer
As a consumer, here in the Netherlands we have rights that companies must adhere to
yes The Netherlands is a Land of rules and laws  haha

some yes say what Goodgame is not enough
and where can I say No or want to stop and also get money back ??
and making free choice  ???????
you can not just change the conditions also Goodgame does not

Pronunciation art. 6.233 and 6.234 on (pre) contractual obligation of the provider.
On 11 February of this year the ruling published by the Supreme Court on 11 February 2011 was published
about the validity of the General Terms and Conditions and interim changes thereto. A change to the
general terms and conditions must be expressly accepted by the other party in an agreement
to be legally valid. It is not sufficient to only 'make public' the change, for example by
publication on the internet. According to VDAB-Talent, this statement is a radical improvement of the
legal position of consumers and customers that may have major consequences

this is a judgment of the highest court.
goodgame is in the court

gr koos69






[4871715] Raggle Fock (US1) [None] :: Nov. 28, 2017, 8:44 p.m.
koos69 (NL1) said:
here in the Netherlands you can not change any conditions / rules

1 month in advance to indicate what they are going to change
Practical advice from the government about your rights as a consumer
As a consumer, here in the Netherlands we have rights that companies must adhere to
yes The Netherlands is a Land of rules and laws  haha








These two statements are paradoxical. In the first statement you are stating that a company can never change terms & conditions, in the second statement you are saying that a company can change terms & conditions but must detail these changes 1 month in advance.

I'm going to conclude therefore that your first statement is false and the second one is true.

I'll also going to reiterate that "Terms and conditions" are NOT "rules of the game"
"Terms and conditions" specifically describe what the rights and obligations are of the user (in this case the player) and the service provider (in this case GGS). These can include things like how refunds of money are processed, how banning works and what could constitute a ban, etc. "Terms and conditions" do not cover the actual workings of the game. For example GGS was not required to give 1 month notice on changes to game play such as the removal of lucky pennies, the changes to time skips, etc. etc.

Again I have a feeling that the primary source of confusion here is the fact that you are a non-native English speaker (I hope). I suggest that you find someone to translate the T&C that you agreed to into your native language or find a version of it already provided by GGS in your native language. I would then suggest you contact a lawyer and have them explain to you exactly what I just did in your own language. At that point if you still want to pursue legal action I encourage you to tell your lawyer so that he can either: a) bill you for a crazy amount of money, b) Laugh in your face, or c) Both.



[4871721] koos69 (NL1) [None] :: Nov. 28, 2017, 9:02 p.m.
yes Goodgame does confusion

but in 2014 it was General conditions
and now they say rules

I pick up Goodgame on General conditions 2014
that did not go well according to the law in the Netherlands

Pronunciation art. 6.233 and 6.234 on (pre) contractual obligations of the provider.
On 11 February of this year, the ruling published by the Supreme Court was published on February 11, 2011
about the validity of the General Terms and Conditions and interim changes thereto. A change in the
general terms and conditions must be explicitly accepted by the other party in an agreement
to be legally valid.

the judge says enough
I am not obliged to agree to Terms and Conditions
also think big difference in the Netherlands and VS laws










[4871730] Raggle Fock (US1) [None] :: Nov. 28, 2017, 9:17 p.m.
koos69 (NL1) said:
yes Goodgame does confusion

but in 2014 it was General conditions
and now they say rules

I pick up Goodgame on General conditions 2014
that did not go well according to the law in the Netherlands

Pronunciation art. 6.233 and 6.234 on (pre) contractual obligations of the provider.
On 11 February of this year, the ruling published by the Supreme Court was published on February 11, 2011
about the validity of the General Terms and Conditions and interim changes thereto. A change in the
general terms and conditions must be explicitly accepted by the other party in an agreement
to be legally valid.

the judge says enough
I am not obliged to agree to Terms and Conditions
also think big difference in the Netherlands and VS laws










You do realize that agreeing to the terms & Conditions is a requirement for playing GGE correct? If you are now saying that you no longer agree to the T&C or are no longer bound to it, you are basically just telling GGS to ban/delete your account correct?

Also you are wrong, there is not a big difference between the Netherlands and US laws, there is however a big difference between my understanding of US laws and your understanding of the laws in Netherlands.
[4871741] koos69 (NL1) [None] :: Nov. 28, 2017, 9:47 p.m.
do not stick to goodgame to the conditions
when I started playing in 2012
and can quietly see what the difference is in 2012 or 2014
and can make your own free choice
which advantages and disadvantages are involved
and not how goodgame could say anything else as yes
I realized that I also had rights
and what happened when I said no?
I get 35k euros back from Goodgame ??
I play on the 2012 general terms and conditions
the 2014 general terms and conditions I want to have a free choice and not be forced by Goodgame
Goodgame did not do well under Dutch law, it is not my problem
I have the law and do not just take it away

[4871744] Raggle Fock (US1) [None] :: Nov. 28, 2017, 9:51 p.m.
koos69 (NL1) said:
do not stick to goodgame to the conditions
when I started playing in 2012
and can quietly see what the difference is in 2012 or 2014


Please describe the differences in the T&C between 2012 and 2014
[4871753] koos69 (NL1) [None] :: Nov. 28, 2017, 10:23 p.m.
Please describe the differences in the T&C between 2012 and 2014
let goodgame you but tell the difference 2012 and 2014

I leave it in secret until the court

goodgame will not give you an answer to that question either
I have done 30 times without answer
who does not answer has something to hide, therefore I have been looking and asking in laws
[4871754] Raggle Fock (US1) [None] :: Nov. 28, 2017, 10:27 p.m.
koos69 (NL1) said:
Please describe the differences in the T&C between 2012 and 2014
let goodgame you but tell the difference 2012 and 2014

I leave it in secret until the court

goodgame will not give you an answer to that question either
I have done 30 times without answer
who does not answer has something to hide, therefore I have been looking and asking in laws
I find that when people decline to state information and claim to only show it later under certain conditions that they simply don't have any information. Anyways since you are not willing to discuss this thread further, I'll stop posting here.
[4871759] koos69 (NL1) [None] :: Nov. 28, 2017, 10:53 p.m.
happy here in the Netherlands Goodgame to prove nothing has done wrong
in VS it is sometimes different
I have the information and witnesses
why will I share a lawsuit?  to make goodgame smarter

Pronunciation art. 6.233 and 6.234 on (pre) contractual obligations of the provider.
On 11 February of this year the ruling was published by the Supreme Court published on 11 February 2011
Goodgame has not kept the law, now Goodgame can not prove it
[4871846] koos69 (NL1) [None] :: Nov. 29, 2017, 10:36 a.m.
With this statement, providers can no longer refer directly to "Terms and Conditions" are available on the internet. The supplier (supplier) has the burden of proof that the consumer / buyer has received and accepted the general terms and conditions. As a result, Telecom providers, banks, insurers, financial service providers, utilities, housing corporations, DigiD, transport companies, etc. can no longer automatically tacitly impose "General Terms and Conditions" unilaterally without the approval of the other party.

M.a.w. unilaterally offered change have no legal basis and must therefore be confirmed for agreement by the other party. Therefore, the customer does not have to take action if it does not agree with the change. But the provider will have to terminate the contract with a Pro-Rato reimbursement.
[4871933] The Writer (US1) [US1] :: Nov. 29, 2017, 3 p.m.
um.. hold on..are you trying to say that GGE has NO right to make changes to their own terms and conditions??? because if that is the case...then you are about to be in for a shock; because they CAN. Yes, they need to make it known to everyone when they HAVE made a change to it at all....but they have the right to do it.

unless I have completely missed your whole point of what you are talking about, but that is what I just read from your last post.

you are saying that GGE has  no right to make any changes without our consent; but this is not true.



[4871968] koos69 (NL1) [None] :: Nov. 29, 2017, 4:29 p.m.
It is true that GGE can not be unilaterally offered change no legal basis and must be confirmed for agreement by the other party. nothing else YES must never say
where was our free choice  ????  you had to say YES otherwise you could not play anymore unilaterally offered 
I as a customer have a right to also say NO and ask for a refund,  was a free choice ????
or I just stay on the old general conditions 2012 game
GGE can change everything but as a customer I do not have to agree
as a customer I have a choice on Yes and NO  , and at NO GGE will have to come up with an offer with a solution.
GGE violated me free choice. it is up to GGE to tell the judge
difference between laws Netherlands and USA

Pronunciation art. 6.233 and 6.234 on (pre) contractual obligations of the provider.
On 11 February of this year, the ruling published by the Supreme Court was published on February 11, 2011
about the validity of the General Terms and Conditions and interim changes thereto. A change in the
general terms and conditions must be explicitly accepted by the other party in an agreement
to be legally valid.
[4871993] alexandersecond (GB1) [None] :: Nov. 29, 2017, 5:26 p.m.
You're either extremely dumb or extremely dumb. You can't play a game if you don't accept their terms and conditions, period.

koos69 (NL1) said:

GGE can change everything but as a customer I do not have to agree

Sure, if you don't agree, don't play the game and fuck off.
[4872026] koos69 (NL1) [None] :: Nov. 29, 2017, 6:25 p.m.
do you give me 35k euro back ???
fortunately nobody is above the laws
I live in a free country so I can also choose free
no one can tell me anything.
the laws are there for everyone to keep, also for GGE


[4872057] alexandersecond (GB1) [None] :: Nov. 29, 2017, 7:27 p.m.
Why did you spend 35.000 euros if you "don't"(Pretty sure you agreed, otherwise you won't be playing the game) agree with the terms and conditions? No-one's fault but yours
[4872117] koos69 (NL1) [None] :: Nov. 29, 2017, 9:34 p.m.
yes, but I do have consumer rights  haha
and GGE will have to keep that haha
I already have many Dutch players who are going to testify against GGE.
is not my problem, you just have to keep to the laws that have been realized in the Netherlands.