Forum: empire-en
Board: [584] Players ask Players
Topic: [376429] the bully's in this game
[5143836]
Cassander (GB1) [GB1]
:: Sept. 1, 2020, 11:20 p.m.
if its going that far i am riding my Camel way to the UK for that .KhalDrogo (GB1) said:I would like to apologise for jokes i made on this thread, it is a very serious matter in fact it is a police matter- good luck with the court case #Justice4Carol
[5143850]
flug (NL1) [NL1]
:: Sept. 2, 2020, 5:58 a.m.
should have been closed long ago. are just throwing mud at each other. issue? They no longer see it as a game and it has all become much too personal. and the solution is really not here in forum, because in every fight the truth is the first victim. they both have their own truth and so apparently can't figure it out so they just throw mud here. no idea what the goal is.666 (GB1) said:This thread should be locked really, it's not getting anyone anywhere. Let the appropriate authorities look into it rather than debate whether or not it's lawful or insult each other since the situation is supposedly being escalated. If this really did happen then I'm sorry to hear it and hope it does get sorted between both parties, but the forum doesn't seem like an appropriate platform to argue about this - save it for court if it's going that far.
[5144236]
GamerGac5754 (GB1) [GB1]
:: Sept. 2, 2020, 5:31 p.m.
It's not an outpost capture that defines bullying, it's the lever it provides for humiliation, abuse and extortion - which are most definitely bullying. There are no "jokes" applicable and it is just not good enough for GGS to disown any responsibility for when it takes place outside in-game communications.
It is very well known where the skype/discord/whatever account names belong amongst the player accounts and it is not beyond the wit of man to devise systems to identify them on "balance of probability" - rather than the more restrictive "absolute proof " criterion. As is so often pointed out, it is only a game and hardly life altering if the odd mistake were to be made. Surely better that than adopting a blinkered approach which allows bullying to fester and visits misery upon players.
In the end, GGS have total control of which accounts they allow to participate in the game and can make decisions to ban or suspend accounts as they wish. Hence the often voiced suspicion that GGS applies a discriminatory policy which favours higher revenue accounts. The problem has existed in the game for a long time and it is apparent that GGS have no real will to address it, other than a lip service concession in T&Cs.
It is very well known where the skype/discord/whatever account names belong amongst the player accounts and it is not beyond the wit of man to devise systems to identify them on "balance of probability" - rather than the more restrictive "absolute proof " criterion. As is so often pointed out, it is only a game and hardly life altering if the odd mistake were to be made. Surely better that than adopting a blinkered approach which allows bullying to fester and visits misery upon players.
In the end, GGS have total control of which accounts they allow to participate in the game and can make decisions to ban or suspend accounts as they wish. Hence the often voiced suspicion that GGS applies a discriminatory policy which favours higher revenue accounts. The problem has existed in the game for a long time and it is apparent that GGS have no real will to address it, other than a lip service concession in T&Cs.
[5144279]
GamerGac5754 (GB1) [GB1]
:: Sept. 2, 2020, 7:05 p.m.
Bullying Enablers
1. Fake accounts - call them shells or multis or whatever, They can be old accounts which have passed login details on to other players, or new accounts which have been generated for malicious purposes. The problem will always exist because it can't be eliminated. However, GGS could (but rarely do) adopt a much more aggressive approach to rooting them out. GGS are not entirely stupid and, if all the players know the signs, it is only reasonable to infer that GGS are equally aware.
The vast majority of GGS' player community has repeatedly voiced their disappointment and anger that these accounts continue to be operated so it becomes somewhat mystifying that GGS declines to take any significant action to curtail them. But, of course, there is no direct revenue to be obtained from expending resources on such actions and so the pestilence is allowed to continue.
2. Damage - clearly, the whole point of having a combative strategy game is undermined if there are no gains/losses to be had from winning/losing attacks. However, the current system provides far too many opportunities for bullying and harassment.
Purely a personal assessment but as a starting point for discussion;
a. Honour, sabotage and plague attacks - lumped together because they all do relatively little damage and, to be fair, I have never heard of them being used as leverage for bullying although I suppose it might be theoretically possible if a concerted alliance wide campaign was initiated. One to worry about if and when it happens.
b. Tool sweeping/cleaning - defensive tools cost rubies and/or in-game effort and resources so it can be devastating for players to have hundreds of expensive tools removed while they are offline. Doing so is a potential lever for bullying. "It can stop if you.... make a gift, leave your alliance, surrender an asset, accept some humiliation, leave the game etc."
c. Fires/Looting - not as damaging as they used to be for lvl70+ players but still a factor. Concerted action from a group of players can eliminate any possibility of effective defence as well as prevent any game activity if troops are eliminated as fast as they are recruited or bought and food/resources are robbed faster than they can be replaced. Also has a destructive personal impact when attacks are constantly raining in and, despite whatever efforts are made, the target has again been reduced to near zero troops/resources when the player next logs in.
d. Building Destruct - high level buildings represent a significant investment of time, effort, resources and possibly real money in the form of rubies expended. The potential for use as a lever for bullying is obvious.
e. Capturing outposts - even more investment expended in development so an even more powerful lever for bullying. Also used in other strategies which I believe to be detrimental to the game for players in general, Alliance hogging of shiny food outposts prevents the possibility of other players achieving the benefits by holding them in otherwise dormant accounts.
GGS cannot resolve all the issues overnight but a new look at options for controlling levers for bullying would be refreshing and perhaps restore some faith in Empire being operated in a manner which demonstrably tries to minimise opportunities.
1. Fake accounts - call them shells or multis or whatever, They can be old accounts which have passed login details on to other players, or new accounts which have been generated for malicious purposes. The problem will always exist because it can't be eliminated. However, GGS could (but rarely do) adopt a much more aggressive approach to rooting them out. GGS are not entirely stupid and, if all the players know the signs, it is only reasonable to infer that GGS are equally aware.
The vast majority of GGS' player community has repeatedly voiced their disappointment and anger that these accounts continue to be operated so it becomes somewhat mystifying that GGS declines to take any significant action to curtail them. But, of course, there is no direct revenue to be obtained from expending resources on such actions and so the pestilence is allowed to continue.
2. Damage - clearly, the whole point of having a combative strategy game is undermined if there are no gains/losses to be had from winning/losing attacks. However, the current system provides far too many opportunities for bullying and harassment.
Purely a personal assessment but as a starting point for discussion;
a. Honour, sabotage and plague attacks - lumped together because they all do relatively little damage and, to be fair, I have never heard of them being used as leverage for bullying although I suppose it might be theoretically possible if a concerted alliance wide campaign was initiated. One to worry about if and when it happens.
b. Tool sweeping/cleaning - defensive tools cost rubies and/or in-game effort and resources so it can be devastating for players to have hundreds of expensive tools removed while they are offline. Doing so is a potential lever for bullying. "It can stop if you.... make a gift, leave your alliance, surrender an asset, accept some humiliation, leave the game etc."
c. Fires/Looting - not as damaging as they used to be for lvl70+ players but still a factor. Concerted action from a group of players can eliminate any possibility of effective defence as well as prevent any game activity if troops are eliminated as fast as they are recruited or bought and food/resources are robbed faster than they can be replaced. Also has a destructive personal impact when attacks are constantly raining in and, despite whatever efforts are made, the target has again been reduced to near zero troops/resources when the player next logs in.
d. Building Destruct - high level buildings represent a significant investment of time, effort, resources and possibly real money in the form of rubies expended. The potential for use as a lever for bullying is obvious.
e. Capturing outposts - even more investment expended in development so an even more powerful lever for bullying. Also used in other strategies which I believe to be detrimental to the game for players in general, Alliance hogging of shiny food outposts prevents the possibility of other players achieving the benefits by holding them in otherwise dormant accounts.
GGS cannot resolve all the issues overnight but a new look at options for controlling levers for bullying would be refreshing and perhaps restore some faith in Empire being operated in a manner which demonstrably tries to minimise opportunities.
[5144564]
Wasso (INT3) [INT3]
:: Sept. 3, 2020, 4:02 p.m.
My final comment on this thread will be as below:
Any game actions by single owner accounts are not bullying. Tool cleaning, shady lady hits, honor snipes, OP / RV caps are all part of the expected actions of the game. YES, it is disappointing when your hard work (and some people's money) get lost due to war, or just random attacks. But, that is the game.
The issue is when you ADD IN the negative / taunting / threatening messages. Even the "crymail" that comes from a simple Shady Hit opens the door for this part of the issue. If everyone respected each other in their communications, there would be no case for "bullying".........
Any game actions by single owner accounts are not bullying. Tool cleaning, shady lady hits, honor snipes, OP / RV caps are all part of the expected actions of the game. YES, it is disappointing when your hard work (and some people's money) get lost due to war, or just random attacks. But, that is the game.
The issue is when you ADD IN the negative / taunting / threatening messages. Even the "crymail" that comes from a simple Shady Hit opens the door for this part of the issue. If everyone respected each other in their communications, there would be no case for "bullying".........
[5144713]
DaveHero0 (GB1) [GB1]
:: Sept. 4, 2020, 7:48 a.m.
Actions by single owner accounts cannot really be considered to be bullying unless there is a big difference in power levels. The multi users using shells, VPN and cheap rubies are quite another matter. GGS have shown next to no interest in doing anything about this, probably as by now it is their major source of income together with the Outers. Very short sighted of them as the situation is driving other players away thus eroding the long term viability of the game
The tone of messages is a good indication of a players outlook. For me people who use "banter" as an excuse for insulting and abusive messages/comments on social media, including here, should be shown the door.
Personally I don't see any willingness on the part of GGS to engage with its player base on any of the major in-game issues so expect the situation to continue to deteriorate
The tone of messages is a good indication of a players outlook. For me people who use "banter" as an excuse for insulting and abusive messages/comments on social media, including here, should be shown the door.
Personally I don't see any willingness on the part of GGS to engage with its player base on any of the major in-game issues so expect the situation to continue to deteriorate
[5144810]
gazz65 (GB1) [GB1]
:: Sept. 4, 2020, 6:19 p.m.
GOODGAMEGREED won't do anything might as whistle in the wind.
they are slow they don't answer complaints quick enough.
they never work weekends so nothing gets done over weekends.
they like money and more money they hate complaints because
that might mean they have to work . so in total GOODGAMEGREED
Don't give a ----about decent players they love the rotten ones .
any normal job or game and these people would be banned and i like my prison bars
you gave me.
they are slow they don't answer complaints quick enough.
they never work weekends so nothing gets done over weekends.
they like money and more money they hate complaints because
that might mean they have to work . so in total GOODGAMEGREED
Don't give a ----about decent players they love the rotten ones .
any normal job or game and these people would be banned and i like my prison bars
you gave me.
[5144847]
GamerGac5754 (GB1) [GB1]
:: Sept. 4, 2020, 9:06 p.m.
This is new to me...?
https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000291932-How-to-Properly-Report-Issues-to-Trust-Safety
anybody seen it before?
https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000291932-How-to-Properly-Report-Issues-to-Trust-Safety
anybody seen it before?
[5144852]
gazz65 (GB1) [GB1]
:: Sept. 4, 2020, 10:27 p.m.
never seen it before
[5145039]
GamerGac5754 (GB1) [GB1]
:: Sept. 5, 2020, 5:23 p.m.
There is a blog which gives a description of the events. I will not post here because it contains obscene and indecent language and images but will send a link to anybody who requests directly.
[5145165]
666 (GB1) [GB1]
:: Sept. 6, 2020, 9:35 a.m.
@GamerGac5754 (GB1) for the record, you supported those players in Odins. What happened here has just as much gravity as the actions taken by the Musks players in the past, but people only care when it happens to a diplo room figure.
It was only TRT actually taking a stand against Odins for a year or so and actually fighting back - the rest of you were happy to sit back and not get involved unless it affected you. So not sure why you find it surprising that a group of teenagers were going to do something like this after getting away with so much for years without most of the server doing anything about it.
Not getting involved in the war because while I believe in what people are fighting AGAINST (musks), I don't believe that all of the 13 alliances are doing it with the right intentions. Some are doing it to further their place up the rankings and obtain assets, it's all well and good acting like you have good morals on the forums but given past actions, it's obvious that people are taking advantage of what happened to Carol (not mentioning any names).
It was only TRT actually taking a stand against Odins for a year or so and actually fighting back - the rest of you were happy to sit back and not get involved unless it affected you. So not sure why you find it surprising that a group of teenagers were going to do something like this after getting away with so much for years without most of the server doing anything about it.
Not getting involved in the war because while I believe in what people are fighting AGAINST (musks), I don't believe that all of the 13 alliances are doing it with the right intentions. Some are doing it to further their place up the rankings and obtain assets, it's all well and good acting like you have good morals on the forums but given past actions, it's obvious that people are taking advantage of what happened to Carol (not mentioning any names).
[5145334]
666 (GB1) [GB1]
:: Sept. 6, 2020, 6:52 p.m.
First of all never heard of you, log on your main then have a say.NewBlood (GB1) said:Your post is a little bit one sided and seems to lean towards blowing your own trumpet for TRT, when yes like some of the others, your alliance has been guilty of similar things before, and harbouring guilty ones. I doubt that you would have many supporters that would say that TRT were not bullies, and have not bullied smaller alliances in the past. I would say all of the Musks players have been in those alliances or their many shells have, and indeed still swap between alliances when it gets to hot in one.I think many incidents like this have happened, but been covered up or ridiculed as Musks and others have tried to do this time. The only difference is that it quickly became forum knowledge before the trolls could get to work. There are still players active now that many others have made calls to GGE for them to be banned from the server for what they have written about other players, and their families. This incident I don't think has anything to do with a diplo room person or not, its just how casually and with total lack of any feeling, or guilt that the Musks carried it out and then tried to ridicule, and hide it.Again just like Imperius! you seem to want everyone to look on this as being the actions of teens, when in reality it is the actions of fully grown adults, hiding in homes, behind darkened windows, being as hateful and premeditated to other normal players as you can be. All long serving players will know how long these players have been around, and some that may have befriended them when they began will know previous names, possible real ages, and even jobs.Its time that GGE and the authorities closed down on these hateful players who just want to cause heartache and stress to others playing this game. Yes a game to most, but not the Musks or how they want to play it, useful for blackmail, extortion, forcing players to do what they want. Then get everyone to blame it on teens, or a twisted sense sense of humour, when in reality its neither.
And I agree with most of your points, but the fact remains that the same players have been doing this sort of stuff for a year nearly and only now have most of the server gotten themselves involved.
Musks deserve to be wiped from the server but I don't "want everyone to look on this as being the actions of teens" - over 50% of Musks are aged under 20. Don't put words in my mouth, least of all compare me to Imperius, I wasn't a shell hiding away in The Wraith for 3+ years before spending my entire income to become relevant on a game.
I don't get wiped by 4 waves either.. again you're trying to make it sound like I support Musks when I've got more of a reason to hate them than whoever you are. Just stating facts.
[5145979]
GamerGac5754 (GB1) [GB1]
:: Sept. 11, 2020, 12:48 a.m.
[5148743]
GamerGac5754 (GB1) [GB1]
:: Sept. 18, 2020, 8:42 p.m.
Spoiler Alert
The link contains offensive language and images.
https://bullyingandharassmentinonlinegaming.wordpress.com
The link contains offensive language and images.
https://bullyingandharassmentinonlinegaming.wordpress.com
[5149878]
Carcharodon (NL1) [NL1]
:: Sept. 24, 2020, 3:31 a.m.
People are even promotend en protected bij goodgame to bully in this game if you raport them be a wear in this game is also a cencorship you can not sai what is the truthe 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNNNtyK5pZU
if you stand fore the trude you stand allone even goodgame wil lie to you
liere lier e your pants are on fire, your nose is as long as a telefone wiere
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNNNtyK5pZU if you stand fore the trude you stand allone even goodgame wil lie to you
liere lier e your pants are on fire, your nose is as long as a telefone wiere
[5150001]
Pieter Cornelis (NL1) [NL1]
:: Sept. 24, 2020, 9:36 p.m.
And what is sufficient evidence?BM_Thanatos said:It's more that punishing players for, well, playing the game, just isn't going to happen.
Servers can establish their own rulesets that they can advise their server to follow, but it should be noted that none of those rules are actually enforced by Goodgame Studios. If a player doesn't want to follow them and subsequently wants to 'bully' other players, that's perfectly within their rights to do so. Players should be entitled to play how they want to play, no? If you try and force something upon them that they don't want, that will likely make the situation worse.
If you suspect a player of multi-accounting, it's all very well and good saying that they should be banned, but without sufficient evidence that the account is a proxy or multi-account, bans may not be enforced. If you were a new player that had the capability to spend, and someone else thought you were a proxy/multi, would you like it if someone could get you banned just by saying "I think this player is using a VPN to get cheap currency"? I'm not 100% sure on what evidence needs be supplied (you could always find and ask someone who has reported someone for that reason), but bans are unlikely to be handed out based on someone going "That player is a proxy, but I haven't got any screenshots to support my claim."
Hope this answers any questions.
I know for a fact that more then one accounts got stolen on the NL1 server.
Several tickets where send in by quit a few players including: Name, numbers, time lines of things happend. Screenshots of things said, screenshot of activity on the alliance page.
And still not one second of action one GGE side, o yes we were told: You shouldn't shared passwords in the past....
Okay, that's true!
But still nothing happend with those multi accounts, and they are still active until this very day.
And many, many other multi accounts stil active, shit, i know player that have at least 15 accounts surrounding their main account....
:-D
[5150036]
flug (NL1) [NL1]
:: Sept. 25, 2020, 8:43 a.m.
like thanatos said.
if players want to play that way, they are allowed to play that way. so it's okay to bully.
and that's the way it is.
if players want to play that way, they are allowed to play that way. so it's okay to bully.
and that's the way it is.
[5150098]
Wasso (INT3) [INT3]
:: Sept. 25, 2020, 2:36 p.m.
Not exactly what he said. IF someone is multi-accounting and it can be proven, they will get the ban. It is the PROVING part that is difficult to do. PROVING that you shared passwords and lost an account because of it, doesn't prove who the rightful owner is. IF the original account owner had it tied to his email, I believe he would be able to get it back.flug (NL1) said:like thanatos said.
if players want to play that way, they are allowed to play that way. so it's okay to bully.
and that's the way it is.
As for PLAYING THE GAME as designed, that is not Bullying. It is often being an @$#%^$#, but it isn't Bullying....
[5150146]
Pieter Cornelis (NL1) [NL1]
:: Sept. 25, 2020, 6:13 p.m.
Wasso (INT3) said:Not exactly what he said. IF someone is multi-accounting and it can be proven, they will get the ban. It is the PROVING part that is difficult to do. PROVING that you shared passwords and lost an account because of it, doesn't prove who the rightful owner is. IF the original account owner had it tied to his email, I believe he would be able to get it back.flug (NL1) said:like thanatos said.
if players want to play that way, they are allowed to play that way. so it's okay to bully.
and that's the way it is.
As for PLAYING THE GAME as designed, that is not Bullying. It is often being an @$#%^$#, but it isn't Bullying....
But what is sufficient evidence?
No activity for a longer time on stolen reported suspicious accounts, and then suddenly one of each other got logged in and starts almost the same move. (Like surrounding one player with HQ's?) Reporting this is the only thing that a player can do, the evidence should be found in the data bases of the people that started a business and made the rules. Creating rules means that you also have to maintain those rules. Mate, even if i had sufficient evidence of things happened and presented them on a silver plate in Hamburg, then still no punitive measures will follow because GGE has nothing to gain with this. They only got things to lose, like 60 - 70% of the accounts on sever NL1. 2091 level 70 players on the board with 54 - 100.084.879 glorypoints with the current Bloodcrows. 9926 level 70 players overall, go figure it out how many farms and multi accounts there are. I don't have problems with players attacking each other, making some trouble now and then, it's about making other players game miserable with and hiding behind multi accounts and nothing being done about that.
[5150208]
Wasso (INT3) [INT3]
:: Sept. 25, 2020, 8:07 p.m.
Certainly you or I can easily spot accounts that are "suspicious" and 99% of them would be either shared keys within an Alliance or straight up Multis. But you ask the $64,000 question: How do you PROVE it? What level PROOF is good enough for them to take action? "Without a shadow of a doubt"? "On a preponderance of evidence"? "Gut feeling"? "4 out of 5 Dentists agree"? That there are DEAD accounts is a different issue. How many of the 9926 total players bought rubies AT LEAST ONCE? As you likely know, once you buy, they don't delete the account. JUST IN CASE the buyer wants to come back to play. SO, DEAD accounts do not equal MULTI accounts.Pieter Cornelis (NL1) said:Wasso (INT3) said:Not exactly what he said. IF someone is multi-accounting and it can be proven, they will get the ban. It is the PROVING part that is difficult to do. PROVING that you shared passwords and lost an account because of it, doesn't prove who the rightful owner is. IF the original account owner had it tied to his email, I believe he would be able to get it back.flug (NL1) said:like thanatos said.
if players want to play that way, they are allowed to play that way. so it's okay to bully.
and that's the way it is.
As for PLAYING THE GAME as designed, that is not Bullying. It is often being an @$#%^$#, but it isn't Bullying....But what is sufficient evidence?No activity for a longer time on stolen reported suspicious accounts, and then suddenly one of each other got logged in and starts almost the same move. (Like surrounding one player with HQ's?) Reporting this is the only thing that a player can do, the evidence should be found in the data bases of the people that started a business and made the rules. Creating rules means that you also have to maintain those rules. Mate, even if i had sufficient evidence of things happened and presented them on a silver plate in Hamburg, then still no punitive measures will follow because GGE has nothing to gain with this. They only got things to lose, like 60 - 70% of the accounts on sever NL1. 2091 level 70 players on the board with 54 - 100.084.879 glorypoints with the current Bloodcrows. 9926 level 70 players overall, go figure it out how many farms and multi accounts there are. I don't have problems with players attacking each other, making some trouble now and then, it's about making other players game miserable with and hiding behind multi accounts and nothing being done about that.
I am 100% anti Multi. I have turned down multiple offers of "Account Keys" to visit other Alliances. I also do not believe that GGS has done enough to combat the issue. But, just as Dead Account does not equal Multi Account, neither does Multi Account = Bully. SOME ARE, YES.
The examples of people harassing others via messaging in game or out is NOT ACCEPTABLE. However, an Alliance deciding to strip some random player of their Outposts is NOT Bullying. Yes, I have been on the receiving end of a Whale who popped up a dozen low level accounts around mine to hit me around the clock. Know what I did? Ignored it. Sat there and turtled. He got bored and moved on. Took a while, yes. But, I did not engage in Discord chats with him, or respond to in game messages. Press the ignore button, it works. You can also abandon the account and start a new one, change to a different server, move on to a game that is much better run, or find something productive to do IRL.
Final comment is again the same Final comment I have made before: Don't take this game so seriously.....