Forum: empire-en

Board: [816] News from the world of Empire

Topic: [343383] Event Teaser: Attack of the shapeshifter

[4900807] David Noble (US1) [None] :: Jan. 17, 2018, 10:39 p.m.

Plumpy21 (US1) said:

David Noble (US1) said:

Plumpy21 (US1) said:

Manatee (US1) said:

I did very well and STILL have no clue how the point system works.

I'm pretty sure at this point that it's not simply based on ratio of troops lost to troops killed.  Can also verify it has nothing to do with how quickly you break the wall.  Has to be something related to the type of troops, or maybe the might variance is a factor as well.  Maybe even a calculation that takes in all of: your own sent/loss ratio and the loss/killed ratio and the type of troops involved.

Wouldn't it be funny if it was completely random?

Jokes on you it is random.
Hard-Mode:
4.5k defense troops
http://prntscr.com/i1ue08
*Note: Also on this attack my hospital was filled with demons.

13 defense troops
http://prntscr.com/i1uec6

Just look at those two reports and tell me it isn't randomized or you get shafted by this system. I killed almost 100 times as many in the first as in the second but in the second attack I got more red blood and more charms. The only difference that I can tell is I won the second battle and not the first but what sense does that make?

Interesting. They did advise in Stream to not go on full hardcore mode, but in some situations you could actually get away with it especially against a castle with weak cast and/or a very small number troops stationed in a Shapeshifter castle. One of my shapeshifter castles had like only 3 troops stationed and also a very weak cast, but went on full hardcore mode for that.

Edit: The espionage report of only 3 was misleading and there turned out to be a lot more troops stationed inside, but even on full hardcore  mode and not sending six full waves I still won all three positions, had only 78 casualties, and made like 1.2k points from full hardcore and also got 150 charms as well. The cast was still the same though of only 9.4% melee total with no bonuses for ranged. I am still left wondering what would have happened if I had sent six full waves and if it could have gotten me more points and closer to the 2k. I only sent the faster troops though with 50 speed which would help explain why I did not send in full waves.

How much blood or charms did you get? In reference to Manatees' response we are trying to find a way to maxamize blood per hit.

I killed 711 on hard mode from that one castle even though the espionage report showed only 3 (although, it was also a weak cast as well that used no tools as well). Anything with 2k or less is fairly easy to win against especially if you can attack with a strong commander that has six waves and use the proper troop and tool setup even on hard mode. In this case scenario which I rarely do in pvp I only used ladders for the walls and tools for the gate as the only tools that I used because of it being a weak cast with very few troops stationed inside with no tools equipped on the walls. It is important to keep in mind that even though I did not use any mantlets or tools for moat on that attack that some Shapeshifter totems might actually be multiple and/or dead accounts as well.

[4900833] Turtle24 (US1) [US1] :: Jan. 18, 2018, 12:01 a.m.

Plumpy21 (US1) said:

Manatee (US1) said:

I did very well and STILL have no clue how the point system works.

I'm pretty sure at this point that it's not simply based on ratio of troops lost to troops killed.  Can also verify it has nothing to do with how quickly you break the wall.  Has to be something related to the type of troops, or maybe the might variance is a factor as well.  Maybe even a calculation that takes in all of: your own sent/loss ratio and the loss/killed ratio and the type of troops involved.

Wouldn't it be funny if it was completely random?

Jokes on you it is random.
Hard-Mode:
4.5k defense troops
http://prntscr.com/i1ue08
*Note: Also on this attack my hospital was filled with demons.

13 defense troops
http://prntscr.com/i1uec6

Just look at those two reports and tell me it isn't randomized or you get shafted by this system. I killed almost 100 times as many in the first as in the second but in the second attack I got more red blood and more charms. The only difference that I can tell is I won the second battle and not the first but what sense does that make?

If you had sent a full army on the second hit with 13 troops I believe you would have got more points.

[4900933] Philt123 (GB1) [GB1] :: Jan. 18, 2018, 9:53 a.m.

So what we know so far is that the points system is broken, that you get more points the less might points you have. that sometimes you can get more points by sending tiny attacks, that you get no more shape shifter charms on hard mode than you do on normal mode.

We also know that the anonimity thing doesnt work, i have had a number of messages saying guess that was you hitting me then.  And they were all right.

from what i have seen there really is no real advantage to going hard mode, certainly not one worth putting all your troops at risk, big risk tiny upside.  No thanks.

Also from what i have seen only 1 in 15 hits i have sent have bothered to change the setup or defend the att properly.  So to be honest its nothing like Pvp until you find a way to engage / reward the defender then you are never going to get player buy in.

There comes the next problem, if you get player buy in you will soon realise PVP system is even more broken than you realised at the higher ends of the game hitting from 150 clicks is totally pointless  The reality is that at the higher levels of the game, its now entirley possible to hold 15,000 defenders in an OP and still have positive food burn, so that means its entirley mossible to hold 50,000 defensive troops in green alone without having negative food burn, OFC at the moment that will be uncommon but as time goes on will become more and more common. so what you will find is that if people could actually be bothered to play the game the scoring system would simply not work, as you would have people constantly running into 30-50k walls of troops, and I dont care what troops you use or what com you have or what attacking bonus you have, if you meet 50,000 troops in the keep you gonna walk away with a loss with bad ratios.

At the moment good scores are dependant on you basically hitting someone who is not bothered about defending, should they choose to defend you are basically screwed.  Also given the fact that the attacks you can sometimes work out who is attacking you.  then how long do you think this event is going to be dominated by players stacking castles. and maximising their scoresby arranging exactly what setup / what troops they want in their castle.

[4900949] Herveus (AU1) [AU1] :: Jan. 18, 2018, 10:56 a.m.

Hardcore is worth when sending snipes on real targets cause you can get 2k+ easily then , but to get those most player will have to lower their mp by storing deco or taking off equipment cause most of the active players can hold enough defense to defend a single hit of someone at their level.

[4901173] David Noble (US1) [None] :: Jan. 18, 2018, 4:56 p.m.

There seems to be no difference between normal mode and full hardcore mode when only 32 troops and no tools are sent. I have seen one attack on full hardcore mode with only 32 troops and no tools make it into the courtyard with 400 points total. Normal mode I allowed the same thing to happen and surprisingly the results were the same of 400 points even on normal mode. How do you figure that? Only 32 troops with no tools on both hard mode and even on normal mode can get you 50 charms if at least one position makes it into the courtyard. I made a little over 2,000 points once for winning on full Hardcore mode against small defenses from a Shapeshifter Totem which possibly could be more than I would ever make on normal mode, but still when you send only 32 troops there seems to be little difference between normal mode and full hardcore mode if at least one position makes it into the courtyard. Now I did have 2 casualties on normal mode from demon horrors vs. no casualties on full hardcore vs. 32 defenders, but still it is a little surprising that the points made from both modes were the same. My best guess is that the least amount of points are made when attackers or defenders do not make it into the courtyard.

[4901364] ravage1234 (US1) [None] :: Jan. 18, 2018, 9:32 p.m.

i have started to notice that the shapeshifter camp doesnt multiply my points unless i turn on all of the options for the hardcore mode.

[4901366] Manatee (US1) [None] :: Jan. 18, 2018, 9:40 p.m.

From what I'm seeing, the latest trend is that advanced players are dropping all of their might points so that they are paired with Shape-Shifters who are much weaker players than them.  Then they attack at full hard-mode for the most points since it's more likely to be able to win.

Not sure what I think about that yet, but with all of the stuff GGE won't fix timely because it doesn't hurt their wallets, I suppose take whatever advantages you can get to try and get the new commander quicker.  GGE will probably fix that workaround next time (maybe take an average of the past week's Might instead of a snapshot at rollover time?).

[4901449] Plumpy21 (US1) [US1] :: Jan. 19, 2018, 12:57 a.m.

Manatee (US1) said:

From what I'm seeing, the latest trend is that advanced players are dropping all of their might points so that they are paired with Shape-Shifters who are much weaker players than them.  Then they attack at full hard-mode for the most points since it's more likely to be able to win.

Not sure what I think about that yet, but with all of the stuff GGE won't fix timely because it doesn't hurt their wallets, I suppose take whatever advantages you can get to try and get the new commander quicker.  GGE will probably fix that workaround next time (maybe take an average of the past week's Might instead of a snapshot at rollover time?).

Why not just level? No point in doing Might points because players can change it, level players can't stop themselves from leveling up but they can prolong each level.

[4901472] JYT (US1) [US1] :: Jan. 19, 2018, 2:45 a.m.

Am I misremembering or didn't they say this was fixed?

[4901476] Peter John (US1) [US1] :: Jan. 19, 2018, 3 a.m.

JYT (US1) said:

Am I misremembering or didn't they say this was fixed?

And you believe what did they say, why????

[4901682] Sybll (US1) [US1] :: Jan. 19, 2018, 2:20 p.m.

Not sure if anyone else has had this problem, did not read the whole thread.

Last night I sent out 3 attacks on shapeshifter totems before I went to bed.  This morning when I check in there are no battle reports, and ALL the attackers I sent were at my MAIN and did not go back to the ops I sent them from.  If I had signed in a half hour later they all would have starved.  And I got no credit for 3 attacks.

Seems like a BIG glitch!

[4901693] STEVIEBEANZ (GB1) [GB1] :: Jan. 19, 2018, 2:42 p.m.

did you launch before midnight when the towers reset?

one of our guys did and got the same results. no battle report, all attackers back to main.

doesnt seem like a glitch as the target changes but they could at least give you a report and send attackers back to their originating castle

[4901697] Sybll (US1) [US1] :: Jan. 19, 2018, 2:46 p.m.

Yes, attacks would have landed after midnight; but if that is a problem then system should not let you send.  And troops should ALWAYS go back to op or castle they were sent from.

[4902055] coolguymatt (US1) [US1] :: Jan. 20, 2018, 6:47 a.m.

Manatee (US1) said:

From what I'm seeing, the latest trend is that advanced players are dropping all of their might points so that they are paired with Shape-Shifters who are much weaker players than them.  Then they attack at full hard-mode for the most points since it's more likely to be able to win.

Not sure what I think about that yet, but with all of the stuff GGE won't fix timely because it doesn't hurt their wallets, I suppose take whatever advantages you can get to try and get the new commander quicker.  GGE will probably fix that workaround next time (maybe take an average of the past week's Might instead of a snapshot at rollover time?).

Dropped over 450k might points to get to a total of around 600k. Still 4 with over 8k and one hard mode hittable 3.5k. I'm guessing you would have to drop much farther or its all just random, including the points system.

[4902126] bernhardt (US1) [US1] :: Jan. 20, 2018, 10:21 a.m.

As someone mentioned about getting credit for attacks, I don't get credit for all my attacks either.  Since today's rollover, 3 attacks have been launched and landed.  Have brs on each.  Go into the tent and look at the series score there and only 1 is there.  
Yesterday, I did 5 token attacks and the tent only recorded three.

Seem to get all the tokens I'm supposed to though.

Agree the score system seems totally random.

[4902259] LapsedPacifist (US1) [US1] :: Jan. 20, 2018, 4:19 p.m.

I'm not sure that dropping might helps with the castles you get paired with. But I do think it may help your score, if you lower your might before hitting a totem. Maybe. Honestly I'm still kinda mystified by the scoring system on this event.

[4902261] David Noble (US1) [None] :: Jan. 20, 2018, 4:21 p.m.

bernhardt (US1) said:

As someone mentioned about getting credit for attacks, I don't get credit for all my attacks either.  Since today's rollover, 3 attacks have been launched and landed.  Have brs on each.  Go into the tent and look at the series score there and only 1 is there.  
Yesterday, I did 5 token attacks and the tent only recorded three.

Seem to get all the tokens I'm supposed to though.

Agree the score system seems totally random.

The score system is definitely random at least to some extent. Even if the troops stationed were actually attackers and/or militia (which are similar to peasants) instead of real defenders or versatile defenders I am guessing that GGS counts them as defense in the scoring system as well, but the smaller the totem is the easier it is to make more points on full hardcore mode especially with a full sized attack which is something that seems to be quite obvious from my experience as to how the scoring system works. I have noticed for example that even if I win two positions for example I still only get 10 charms instead of 50 charms when it is on "normal mode" and I do not use full waves for attacking. Full hardcore mode in contrast I think you could very easily get you the 50 charms you need even without sending full waves and have at least one position successfully reach the courtyard and especially if the player is not online which may be a more effective strategy against bigger totems as opposed to smaller totems when using full "hardcore mode".

However, I am guessing you only get the 150 charms on full "hardcore mode"if you can at least win the battle and send full waves. Winning all three positions could definitely get you more points on full hardcore mode, but not certain if that is also needed as well or not on full hardcore mode to at least get enough points to make the 150 charms. However, I would definitely recommend winning at least two positions for getting the 150 charms even on full "hardcore mode". Normal mode I think you definitely have to win all three plus winning the battle and also sending full waves if you really want to have the best chance of getting 150 charms on normal mode. However, I am guessing that in contrast to full hardcore mode you could more easily make more points vs bigger totems for winning instead of smaller totems. If you were to at least make 1k for winning regardless of the totem's size on normal mode that could be another easy way to make 150 charms, but I think that when attacking smaller totems that full hardcore mode gets you the most points vs. smaller totems instead of using normal mode. Part of the reason for the randomness could be because of their are certain elements that may need experimentation on to help determine how the scoring system really works.

[4902940] bernhardt (US1) [US1] :: Jan. 22, 2018, 3:30 a.m.

New theory I have on the tent and its "series" of shifters is that the totems and the "series" don't reset at the same time.  Just more inconcievable GGS logic to deal with I guess.

[4902956] Herveus (AU1) [AU1] :: Jan. 22, 2018, 6:15 a.m.

bernhardt (US1) said:

New theory I have on the tent and its "series" of shifters is that the totems and the "series" don't reset at the same time.  Just more inconcievable GGS logic to deal with I guess.

the series in the tent rests only after 5 attacks, whether you do these attacks in 5 days spread out or all in 1 day makes no difference. It works just like they said it would.

[4902966] bernhardt (US1) [US1] :: Jan. 22, 2018, 7:38 a.m.

Not in my experience, but I'll take your word for it since the totems reset at ~9 pm here(which is the login reset time here) - generally shortly after the start of my nightime game activity, so sometimes activity rolls into different days.  It's really annoying if I log on a 8:59 one night and at 9:01 the next to find that I "missed" a day for the daily login bonus.  Daily Nobility resets at 1am local time right now.