Goodgame Studios forum archives

Forum: empire-en
Board: [816] News from the world of Empire
Topic: [355035] Advance Feature Introduction: The Fusion System

[4988562] BM Fujiwara [None] :: Aug. 16, 2018, 1:08 p.m.
Many thanks for everyone's feedback, and particularly that last effort of yours muffins was exactly what I've been looking for. My feedback to the team has been broadly speaking that having an explanation of how to forge things is useful (as it isn't a completely trivial system), but it's not the important explanation.

As you say, grinding and spending rubies to finally gain 5 PO from a week of effort seems ... rather poorly scaled. I've already done some back of envelope maths and worked out that even if I can gain 5 level 5 catalysts a week (which I suspect is unlikely, looking at event rewards I'm guessing 2 a week is probably max for "doing very well in events), maxing out all decos to their top level in every castle will take a few decades of game time.... and I'm sure i'm not the only one suspecting that in just 2 years the current deco set will be close to redundant anyway.

Regarding mechanic specifics, my take is that the following are questions that people would need answers to before deciding to invest time and energy into fusion:

What's the typical fusion XP gained from a successful fusion (so how many fusions required to level up, for different levels of decoration)?
If you increase a level, how much PO is that? (Clearly 5 looks like the common figure - is it always 5?)
How much dust and coins are people likely to loot, and from which sources?
How many level 5 catalysts are likely to be available in events, and what position/rank be needed to achieve them, and which events do they get given out in?

Is there any obvious bit of information missing from that set of questions - my goal is to get answers that will allow me to expand on the original explanation thread. Then, like with the Wheel of Fortune and everything else, people can decide whether it's worth playing or not rather than "playing it because they have no idea whether it's actually worth it"

[4988566] bummer (AU1) (Banned) [AU1] :: Aug. 16, 2018, 1:16 p.m.
Don't know if it will have much impact
refusing to use and most of all spend on all this new useless idiocy may, but very unlikely as no record of whatsoever is made about what is actually happening in the game, set good games thinking.
It has more the symptoms of a dying game where loads of new costly features are introduced to milk out as much money as possible. Have seen this happen so many times before, its an illness the game will have very hard time to recover from, but healing should start soon.



[4988963] Džaja (INT2) [None] :: Aug. 17, 2018, 12:41 p.m.
I agree with you. I started this game years ago and it was quite fun to play but however GGE gives to much on profit to care anylonger on players. You sacrife to much to get few extra credits but eventualy you will lose all players. This fusion is just one big sh%t and you give fusion cores as reward on events, we get them even if don t want it. You removes rewards with big skips 1h, 5h, 24h and force us to buy it. We dont get army anymore on events like before, wheel of fortune now take 30 tickets insted 3 for same prize. You crossing the line for profit. Eventualy noone will stay and this game wil be shattered. 

[4989064] Philt123 (GB1) [GB1] :: Aug. 17, 2018, 5:05 p.m.
Ok so i watched the twitch feed, before I didnt really understand enough to know how good or bad it it.  

Now i KNOW it sux on a whole new level!!!

OMG I genuinly dont really know what to say?  do any of your guys ever play the game?

do i care what any of the features of the deco are ?  nope the ONLY thing about the deco I care about its its PO thats the only thing that makes any differnce to my castle and my strength, its the only stat worth looking at.  

So you are only EVER going to look at upgrading your very very highest level decos, so right now in the game you are going to be talkign at decos with a PO of 360 or above.  What the hell is the point of upgrading a deco of less that 240 when i can get better than that in 5 mins of playing sams or nomads ???  Answer is you are not ever.

The big problem is to be able to do this you are going to have to spend a FORTUNE  upgrading your forge to a level that is high enough to be able to do this, or spend years getting enough from events.  By then the 360 deco you wanted to upgrade will itself be outdated so the new benchmary will be 400+ and yet again you still dont have enough dust to upgrade your forge.  

even your demonstration only upgraded a 105 PO item becasue the sheer cost for upgrading a decent deco was too high even for a test account with unlimited rescources!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!        You couldnt write it could you!

It makes no sense, no sense at all, has anyone actually done any sort of maths to work out how many of each type of resourse  it would take to upgrade say a level 50 deco to level 100, that includes ALL the stuff needed to to upgrade your forge etc ?  then once you worked that out have you worked out how long it would take an average player to gain those resources by participating in every event ?

Because to me it seems that its going to take Years and years to get enough equipment to upgrade a singe deco to level 100 and in doing that you are going to add what ?   between 250 and 500 PO to your castle total ?  which will in turn add what between +5 and +10 food production to your castle ????   So years of work playing events week in week out for such a pitiful increase ?  yes those 3 extra horrors i can feed are going to rock my world!

It makes no sense?   Even ruby whales are not going to bother with this, it simply makes no sense even to them, the cost simply does not justify the miniscule benefit you are going to get.

Time for a drastic rethink is needed otherwise you are just going to have another icon cluttering the screen that no one uses, slowing down your gameplay for nothing.  you guys really really need to think a lot more carefully about the cost vs benefit calcualtion.

And by cost i mean either ruby cost, or hours grinding events cost.  Becasue at the moment the equation isnt even close to being balanced.   

I am stunned you released it like this, it really makes you look bad, do you guys not talk about this stuff in pre release meetings?  

I could go on, there is so much in this that makes no sense when you look at cost vs reward.   And really as players that all we look at.  on the one hand you happy to bring out level 14 base food items which will add many thousands of food per hour  to your castle for each one you own, yet you bring out this grossly over priced over complicated monstrocity to the game that will take you literally millions of ruby or many years of gamplay to add maybe 10 extra food per hour to your castle it makes zero sense.

My Advice scrap it.  If you are too heavily invested in it, then you need to simplify it, if you cant be bothered to do that.  Then you need to MASSIVLY rethink the cost vs reward thing.  Becasue you are at the moment so far off its not even funny.  Or you can just ignore your players and they will ignore the feature, and you will have yet another white elephant on your hands, adding nothing.  
 



[4989075] Wiglema (NL1) [NL1] :: Aug. 17, 2018, 5:25 p.m.
I fully agree with Phil.

Except that it's not a white elephant, but a yak. (Just kidding, you'll know if you've watched the video ;-) )

[4989087] Kage (ASIA1) [ASIA1] :: Aug. 17, 2018, 5:50 p.m.
Remember the achievement mission where you had to attack thousands of bc/fc castles?
It was like 50/60k in total. They re-worked that mission again..
Same will happen with fusion system, or like Phil  said, they will end with a feature that is useless to 99% of the players + ruby players.

[4990205] sittingbull11 (US1) [US1] :: Aug. 21, 2018, 1:41 a.m.
     Fusion forge!!!!  What an unfunny joke on all of us!!! It's just another way to force us to spend money!!! I have no idea how many coins and rubies I've spent on this mess and it still don't work!!!! Are the employees of GGE wanting to find another job? It looks like it!!!  PLEASE get your act together, you've already lost thousands of players in this past year and even had a lay off of workers! PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE go back to what got you to the top of the game in the first place! About two years ago you made some changes and as you know they didn't work, you've been losing members ever since and don't seem to  have a clue as how to improve the game. GO BACK TO BASICS!!!!

[4990409] gail y smith (US1) [US1] :: Aug. 21, 2018, 4:03 p.m.
US1
gail y smith

Hello please look at our server map is there anyone out there seeing the hundreds of players high level gone to RUINS.
Instead of adding complicated FUSION Forge once again geared to people with unlimited time to play and deep pockets to spend. Address the fact that this is a WAR game LOL that has become a never ending boring repetitive event game. The absurd inability for the the player with a couple of hours a day to play earn and complete things is further complicated by continued frustration that those events generally go to the guys who bought armour, troops, and tools far superior to what most daily players with limited time can earn. Please stop the ever widening gap between daily active players who earn what they get  and guys who buy bulk of the events using top Armour, Troops and Tools that most can not afford. Tier the Legendary levels and place Penalties on a level more than 200 above that pounds on a New Legendary player. Remove Destroy Armour from the game. Isn't it enough to just hit them and let them keep playing. What point is served by driving long time players from the game by destroying what it took them months and years to build? GGE has made it Evident that Profit Margin is their Primary concern, Hence no Customer Support on Weekends when the bulk of our players are online, continuing to add more and more things that eat memory and slow the game down. I suggest all who wish the game to continue to also speak up against all this storage as it just adds to memory usage. Let us sell what is useless, Alliance Cities, Ruby Fountains, low level Colossus Statues, Potions, Tools we made  as newbies that we do not use any longer. Every item stored adds to load time and memory eaten. I suggest instead of adding more GGE put it's staff to work simply Deleting players, alliances gone to ruins. We have one alliance on our War List vanished now over a year. Until the stuff that does not work properly is resolved and made right DO NOT blindly continue adding more!

gail y smith

[4990488] sboy777 (US1) [US1] :: Aug. 21, 2018, 7:30 p.m.
IMHO its not that bad

I have increased a 100 PO item (with 800 mt pts) to a 150 PO item (with 800 mt pts). Now granted Id only been playing with it some.. but I have used zero rubies.

those that are spending rubies on this should know better

-happy gaming
smalls

[4990548] Shares (AU1) [AU1] :: Aug. 22, 2018, 1:44 a.m.
IMHO its not that bad

I have increased a 100 PO item (with 800 mt pts) to a 150 PO item (with 800 mt pts). Now granted Id only been playing with it some.. but I have used zero rubies.

those that are spending rubies on this should know better

-happy gaming
smalls
and u can easily get a deco for 205 plus - try improving that and see what it costs

[4990709] gail y smith (US1) [US1] :: Aug. 22, 2018, 2:55 p.m.
US1
gail y smith

Hello please look at our server map is there anyone out there seeing the hundreds of players high level gone to RUINS.
Instead of adding complicated FUSION Forge once again geared to people with unlimited time to play and deep pockets to spend. Address the fact that this is a WAR game LOL that has become a never ending boring repetitive event game. The absurd inability for the the player with a couple of hours a day to play earn and complete things is further complicated by continued frustration that those events generally go to the guys who bought armour, troops, and tools far superior to what most daily players with limited time can earn. Please stop the ever widening gap between daily active players who earn what they get  and guys who buy bulk of the events using top Armour, Troops and Tools that most can not afford. Tier the Legendary levels and place Penalties on a level more than 200 above that pounds on a New Legendary player. Remove Destroy Armour from the game. Isn't it enough to just hit them and let them keep playing. What point is served by driving long time players from the game by destroying what it took them months and years to build? GGE has made it Evident that Profit Margin is their Primary concern, Hence no Customer Support on Weekends when the bulk of our players are online, continuing to add more and more things that eat memory and slow the game down. I suggest all who wish the game to continue to also speak up against all this storage as it just adds to memory usage. Let us sell what is useless, Alliance Cities, Ruby Fountains, low level Colossus Statues, Potions, Tools we made  as newbies that we do not use any longer. Every item stored adds to load time and memory eaten. I suggest instead of adding more GGE put it's staff to work simply Deleting players, alliances gone to ruins. We have one alliance on our War List vanished now over a year. Until the stuff that does not work properly is resolved and made right DO NOT blindly continue adding more!

gail y smith
You complain that you have no technical support at the end of the week.
The RO1 server does not support in romanian language at all, we need to get technical support 
from English.
For some of us, it is not a problem, but we have colleagues who do not know the english language
 and ask us to make new tickets in their name. But, to enter someone else's account, even to 
deposit a ticket is against the rules of the game. That's gge


[4990710] gail y smith (US1) [US1] :: Aug. 22, 2018, 2:57 p.m.
hello sorry your server has a problem with language. I have used this translator with great results on the test server perhaps this link would help your guys send in support request.
https://translate.
google.com/?tl=hr

gail y smith
US 1

[4990738] Philt123 (GB1) [GB1] :: Aug. 22, 2018, 3:57 p.m.
so you managed to get a 150 PO item which is useful for what exactly ?  Anything less than 245 is pretty pointless these days as they can be gained in events with about 5 mins play in the right event.  So realisitically 275 is the current benchmark for a PO item.

Personally I wouldnt even bother upgrading a 275 PO item as sooner or later (probably sooner)  this will be the new benchmark for event decos.

So that pretty much means you should really only be looking at upgrading a 320+ deco ideally the very best deco you have.  Otherwise those upgrades are going to be wasted in no time at all. just through game inflation.

So has anyone done the maths yet exactly how long is it going to take for me to upgrade a 360 PO deco to level 100, what PO increase will that give me ?  and how much extra food will that generate for me?  

I suspect the answer will be years of gameplay to upgrade 1 PO item that will add somewhere in the region of 250 PO which will add somewhere in the region of 5 extra food per hour to 1 castle!!!!! Oh well only approx 350 decos to upgrade 

Now tell me thats not a pointless waste of time and effort, and if GGE get their way Money.  Think i will stick to grinding out the level 14 base food items that add a few k extra food for each one you get.




[4990756] ciscous (IT1) [IT1] :: Aug. 22, 2018, 5:24 p.m.
Only waste time!
It is not really worth it! It's a stupid system, only someone who has never played and who does not know what is now the average OP of the deco that the medium layers have could design something like that!
In addition, if you try to upgrade a 360 OP deco does not increase the lack of adequate catalysts (and in any case would be served different forges with medium / high deco from 250-260 at least)

You get first to win a better deco than to forge it!


[4990827] Wiglema (NL1) [NL1] :: Aug. 23, 2018, 1:04 a.m.
So has anyone done the maths yet exactly how long is it going to take for me to upgrade a 360 PO deco to level 100, what PO increase will that give me ?  and how much extra food will that generate for me?  

I suspect the answer will be years of gameplay to upgrade 1 PO item that will add somewhere in the region of 250 PO which will add somewhere in the region of 5 extra food per hour to 1 castle!!!!! Oh well only approx 350 decos to upgrade 

Now tell me thats not a pointless waste of time and effort, and if GGE get their way Money.  Think i will stick to grinding out the level 14 base food items that add a few k extra food for each one you get.



The maths:
Fusion level 100 would be 600 PO, so a 240 PO increase from 360.
Just remove one of those 245 PO items from your castle to see how much extra food that would give (approximately). Probably in the order of 150-200 food per hour, depending on the state of your castle.

With the current state of the game it would literally take forever to reach level 100 even for a single deco, because above 350 PO (i.e. fusion level 50) you'd need catalyst level 6, which isn't in the game yet. So I guess right now you wouldn't even be able to add 5 PO to that 360 PO deco. Not even if you had an endless supply of fusion dust.
Just to get the level of your forge high enough without using rubies you'd probably need a few years of gameplay.

My conclusion:
It's a pointless waste of time, effort, and money.

[4990896] Philt123 (GB1) [GB1] :: Aug. 23, 2018, 8:48 a.m.
Bang on with the maths, you right for me depending on castle removing a 245 deco loses around 170 food.  

So yeah I totally agree with your conclusion.  totally pointless.

[4990944] ciscous (IT1) [IT1] :: Aug. 23, 2018, noon
I think all the players in all servers agree on 2 things:
too complicated and useless
yet they say nothing about the possibility of removing / improving this fusion system
while the shapeshifter castellan was removed immediately despite not having so many negative feedback

GGS do not care about the players

[4994360] JYT (US1) [US1] :: Sept. 8, 2018, 4:10 p.m.
US1
gail y smith

Hello please look at our server map is there anyone out there seeing the hundreds of players high level gone to RUINS.
Instead of adding complicated FUSION Forge once again geared to people with unlimited time to play and deep pockets to spend. Address the fact that this is a WAR game LOL that has become a never ending boring repetitive event game. The absurd inability for the the player with a couple of hours a day to play earn and complete things is further complicated by continued frustration that those events generally go to the guys who bought armour, troops, and tools far superior to what most daily players with limited time can earn. Please stop the ever widening gap between daily active players who earn what they get  and guys who buy bulk of the events using top Armour, Troops and Tools that most can not afford. Tier the Legendary levels and place Penalties on a level more than 200 above that pounds on a New Legendary player. Remove Destroy Armour from the game. Isn't it enough to just hit them and let them keep playing. What point is served by driving long time players from the game by destroying what it took them months and years to build? GGE has made it Evident that Profit Margin is their Primary concern, Hence no Customer Support on Weekends when the bulk of our players are online, continuing to add more and more things that eat memory and slow the game down. I suggest all who wish the game to continue to also speak up against all this storage as it just adds to memory usage. Let us sell what is useless, Alliance Cities, Ruby Fountains, low level Colossus Statues, Potions, Tools we made  as newbies that we do not use any longer. Every item stored adds to load time and memory eaten. I suggest instead of adding more GGE put it's staff to work simply Deleting players, alliances gone to ruins. We have one alliance on our War List vanished now over a year. Until the stuff that does not work properly is resolved and made right DO NOT blindly continue adding more!

gail y smith
False. If you're playing several hours a day and still getting nowhere, rethink your playing strategy. Hit more towers, run trains more efficiently. There must be something wrong happening, because several hours a day is plenty for progress. Secondly, the winners of events almost definitely did not buy equipment to win events. (I don't know of any ruby coms that are meant for events; they're all PvP coms as far as I know. Event coms are won through seasonal events, not bought outright.) They buy point boosters. Oftentimes, this means that troops and tools get bundled along, so they aren't explicitly buying troops or tools; it's just a bonus on what they really want: the booster.

Okay, I can see where you're coming on this. I'd be okay with separating legendary levels, but only at LL 120, 360, and 550, or rather from LL 1-119, 120-359, 360-549, 550-800. This being due to HoL levels.

Next, you previously remarked that this is a war game, yet complain about destroy coms. In war time, is it not fair game to drive back your enemy, to ensure they will not be a threat to you? Is that not a good strategy?

Besides these points, I am very much in agreement with what you have written.

[4994720] Achlys (GB1) [None] :: Sept. 9, 2018, 8:16 p.m.
All these shitty updates genuinely make me want to either; quit the game or work for gge free to make sure they get sh*t right lol. I mean come on!! So many players have asked for similar stuff and the deco forge and awful coms aren't on those lists! It's honestly not difficult to make players happy. We play for a reason, we like aspects of the game. We make it pretty clear which aspects. PAY ATTENTION GGE. 

1) Introduce winning decent CASTELLANS to the monthly events. Alternate betweens coms and castellans ( i don't want 2 of the same commander every event!!)
2) Update Storm equiptment and deco, players used to love this event.
3) Replace the old honour smashing beri with a new world map where players can do pure PVP for a month. Berimold (non-green) used to be epic. OR even more simple, bring back royal capital event and include decent rewards!
4) Get rid of the forge, haven't heard of any players using it, a good deal of hard work in events now goes to earning useless catalysts etc which are just sitting there. 
5) Maybe introduce an event for the low levels (a thorn event or a beri for under 35s?) Seen so many decent players joining and then getting bored. Its because this game has taken the heart and fun out of it! 
6) Move winning ruby awards for alliances lower down the point requirement so that new alliances can develop instead of all the power going to existing alliances. LET OTHERS GROW! 
7) Please make HONOUR points more current. Used to be a huge aspect of the game in beri (non-green) and when might wasn't a thing. Lets make an event for that, its pre-existing! No need to sweat your little brains over developing a new thing. 
8) GGE if you can't come up with your own ideas make a competitions for players to make up there own events and then ACTUALLY LOOK AT THEM AND IMPLEMENT ONE! 
9) Get your support system sorted, loads of players waiting 3-4days for a response to an important FINANCIAL issue. 
10) Stop being idiots and introduce decent coms/casts again. Some great ones coming in, but whats going on with all the loot coms? This elephant com from monthly events, yeh its pretty but many cba to get it. I got it twice, now I'm bored. You've created a fantastic game but the quality is slipping. Maybe look at players ideas, they know what they want. 

REMEMBER; CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT )))

[4994725] bummer (AU1) (Banned) [AU1] :: Sept. 9, 2018, 8:34 p.m.
the right customer now walks away as good games rather spend time in developing useless features that needs stuff that is now boosted by taking reward pages in our events. Don't need many points, true, but they will ever sit unused in the inventory, will there ever be a way to sell or just dump them?
Player trying to connect using satellite cannot get on the game or drop out every ten minutes since the sword upgrade of the login page.
Good games says no to be aware of this problem although it has been reported many many times.
better spend time on the failed fusion then helping player back on the game and review the login system.
better spend time on useless looks for commander or castle then try to solve the missing gold in battle reports
the game is dying
vote with your feet