dreamtree (US1) said:

I wonder if you can make a nice list of all BH/BM subs? I mean dang its so hard to keep track of!
I think on Brave BH and Kings squad are the only ones worth remembering. The rest shouldn't be mentionable. I do know remember some players like to try to recruit subs for fun or something. Those subs are really just used to snipe/steal good players I think...Could be wrong though.

dreamtree (US1) said:

A player got booted for attacking in Storm. Bear attacked someone in Storm "because storm is now in play". We don't don't see it that way though. Really forget who got attacked. But really only the one storm that I remember.

Bear Grills (US1) said:

@TheBlueIcicle (US1) you are way off with your facts. Was some bad luck on Battlehorn's part that we were taking in many new members from TTEAW. As we were doing this process, many of the members we just took in began to have horns pop up on them. Where these players were when the attacks were launched is questionable since they were so close in timing. However, no tteaw players had horns show up on them and then jumped over to GW. Everyone who was in GW for BH's first mass was in GW when the horns popped up. NO ONE hid in GW. TTEAW can handle their selves without our help. This doesn't even make a lot of sense, if they went elsewhere for help why wouldn't these people go to Grumpy King?

Day 1: GWS did not declare on BH for this mass. We retaliated the ones that were part of GW and let TTEAW deal with the ones on their members. We handled them as separate issues.

Day 2: GW declared on BH about 24 hours after when their second mass on us started rolling in. BH then almost immediately asked us for peace which we did not grant. Why would we let them just mass us back to back nights and not even get retals on them? We instead gave 24 hours until we were planning on giving peace. When I told this to Ronald he threatened to have BM declare on GW.

Day 3: In the morning Meezer in Beastmode declared on GW. About 12 hours went by Vic Lynn sent me a pm saying that they 'jumped the gun' and they never meant to declare. Beastmode then wanted peace but they already attacked us for 12 hours while we couldn't really hit back because was focusing elsewhere. I asked for 24 hours for us to get some retals back and the peace proposal was denied.

In summary, BM would rather let us continue to pound their subs than pay the repercussions for a mistake they have already admitted they made. Not sure why their subs stick around to be led by someone who won't take any sacrifice for the team, but I'm sure they will realize that in time.

EDIT  - I spoke with WiseDaniel, It was a good talk and he's the only one who has given me real answers so far to back some of the stuff up that they've said.  And think I should change the tone of my post...  so this is edited...

"I have proof but I won't post it, PM me for it"  (Done, thank you)

Some issues with your post:

Your mass sheet showed who was in TTEAW when the sheet was made, not when people launched or when horns showed up.  We already know you didn't target GWS intentionally, because it's reasonable to expect you intended for it to be players while they were still in TTEAW and in chaos about a move-out.  We granted that to you freely already, lol.  But as Bear has graciously offered, your rank-and-file guys were the victims of unfortunate timing.

Sequence:

1. Merger talks (days prior to your mass)

2. Mass mail about people moving out

3. Leak of mass mail

4. BH wages tool-burning campaign with real attacks, landing on TTEAW and GWS

5. TTEAW and GWS retaliate for hits on them

6. BH sets up another mass, focusing on GWS with more retaliations back

7. War is declared when this 2nd mass lands - (war is only between GWS and BH)

8. Peace request from BH, which was denied

9. BM demands peace for BH as well, which was denied.

10. BM declares, turning this into a family thing

11. GWS declares on all of BM / BH family they can find, but asks its own family to stand aside

You say you held off on hits except the ones already sent?  We disagree.  More masses didn't happen until the declaration?  Disagree with that as well.  The war declaration was actually set up as an auto-declare when your 2nd mass landed on them.  But maybe that is what you meant though...

"Taking on 2 direct gk subs, sure we'll call BM."

BH was not taking on two subs... you were never at war with TTEAW, only GWS.  As far as I can tell, other than a few retaliation hits, TTEAW did not engage you at all.  You called on BM because GWS wasn't letting BH off with a little slap on the wrist this time.

I'll put my own word alongside Bear for those who know me: I was in the chat room when horns were popping up for the first time.  They showed up after the moves had already taken place.  We realized what had probably happened, and that's when I messaged Tom.  You guys know this by now.  Update: After reviewing it again I do see that 2 people waited until the next day to move over, and one person during the actual first mass, but it was by design and had started the night before, as well as 4 hours earlier that day.  People were trickling over and this happened smack in the middle of it.

js7891 (US1) said:

the peace terms gws gave us as i was told

"We hit you for 24 hours while you CANT retal" so unless tee or bear can prove otherwise that's eeeeet 

back to being a potato at life, risk, and gge.
IN                                                                                  

2 get roastedddddddddddddddddddddd    (for another tee essay*)

No essay, and I have no reason to doubt the truth of your comment.

If that's what Bear said, I bet it's because GWS did not want to let BH off the hook with another slap on the wrist.  The terms were not designed to be "fair," they were designed to not let BH off easy without there being a heavy price to pay.  To make sure if they do something so idiotic again they do it with full knowledge that the days of leniency on them are over.

Bear can correct me if I (or you) are wrong.

js7891 (US1) said:

IN 

2 sound like the stupid boi i ammmmmmmmmmmmmm

the peace terms gws gave us as i was told

"We hit you for 24 hours while you CANT retal" so unless tee or bear can prove otherwise that's eeeeet 

back to being a potato at life, risk, and gge.
IN                                                                                  

2 get roastedddddddddddddddddddddd    (for another tee essay*)
ps tanner is gay

Manatee (US1) said:

Hey Dreamtree,

Thank you for confirming the attacks weren't for glory.  We knew that though, and the reason / timing was pretty obvious.  But I do appreciate you confirming that Tom was full of it when approached by GK leadership.  I understand how difficult it is to come up with something plausible when the initial catalyst/reason is underhanded.  However I honestly do believe the rank-and-file were not clued in about it.  (Btw, kudos to whoever settled upon the "it was for war practice" line.  It only took 24 hours to get the memo from BM across to BH, lol, and it works better than "it was just a glory mass")

As for your tool burrners comment, this is what's been playing in my head (it's a scary place...) "Ayyy!  Tool burners be like Swiss Army Blunts mon!  Yu need more da fulljoy mon!"

Anyway, I think it's good that Ronald and Tom are happy.  That means a longer war is likely, and the better your spirits are the better the quality for GWS.

dreamtree (US1) said:

I wonder if you can make a nice list of all BH/BM subs? I mean dang its so hard to keep track of!
I think on Brave BH and Kings squad are the only ones worth remembering. The rest shouldn't be mentionable. I do know remember some players like to try to recruit subs for fun or something. Those subs are really just used to snipe/steal good players I think...Could be wrong though.

Now that's not very nice to yours and BM's subs.  I mentioned 15 but apparently there are over 17.  Some are subs of subs, and I didn't count what looked like shells such as Kings Squad.  Hence the number 15.  But here you go...

BeastMode
The Brave BH
Spartacus (last night they removed all mention of BM from description)
Sound and Surf (Same as above, I think.  Sub of Spartacus)
Rebel Empire
La Cosa Nostra
Arrow of Hope
-Musketeers-
Armored Corps
Battlehorn
Dominus
The Black Forge
S.W.Battlehorn
Apocalypse
Brave Kings
Battlehorn III
The Mist

CaptainBro (US1) said:

Being a member of BM, seeing the forums is pretty funny. I see the same story from two sides and it seems like it isn't the story but the motive changing from when Bear Grills or a BH/BM member tells it.

#1 BH hits/masses a grumpy sub - sub

#2 GWS just so happens to recruit some of those being hit

#3 GWS gets involved because of #2 

#4 BH asks BM to get involved to level the playing field and because we're good friends

In a way I think both sides could have made steps to deescalate the problem, but that's just an opinion. 

Hmm, some quick stuff...

GWS didn't recruit them, there was other stuff involved.  Happens

As for number 4... We agree on this one.  Although BH and GWS started out with the same might points and number of members, BeastMode + Battlehorn versus GWS is probably a more level playing field than BH vs GWS.  (sorry, couldn't resist, lol.  Thanks for the opportunity hehe)

BM_Friedrich said:

CaptainBro (US1) said:

Being a member of BM, seeing the forums is pretty funny. I see the same story from two sides and it seems like it isn't the story but the motive changing from when Bear Grills or a BH/BM member tells it.

#1 BH hits/masses a grumpy sub - sub

#2 GWS just so happens to recruit some of those being hit

#3 GWS gets involved because of #2 

#4 BH asks BM to get involved to level the playing field and because we're good friends

In a way I think both sides could have made steps to deescalate the problem, but that's just an opinion. 

Neither side wanted to deescalate, you both talk about loving war all the blasted time for petes sake

Manatee (US1) said:

Hmm, some quick stuff...

GWS didn't recruit them, there was other stuff involved.  Happens

As for number 4... We agree on this one.  Although BH and GWS started out with the same might points and number of members, BeastMode + Battlehorn versus GWS is probably a more level playing field than BH vs GWS.  (sorry, couldn't resist, lol.  Thanks for the opportunity hehe)

CaptainBro (US1) said:

So you're saying GWS didn't recruit the players with attacks landing on them, they just ended up in GWS? If I remember by neighbors correct, Vaako was in Til the End a-w and now in gws. If it happens during an attack it seems more like a foot-in-the-door move than an independent one.

And yes lol, it's true that BH dropped off quite a bit but we're comparing a fairly new alliance stretching it's legs with Warsouls, probably one of the best GK alliance not counting GK main.  Heck its even in their alliance name, not only are they naturally upset but their very soul is attracted to aggression.   Not to be messed with!

darkpanda (US1) said:

Peter John (US1) said:

What did you just call me???